The "Silent Killer" Missile - MBDA MICA - Performance and Discussion Thread (WIP)

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

So with 100m/s less Delta-V and a shorter burn time .its meant to reach 80km within the current guidance time?

No… the guidance time is gaijin picked and obviously should be lengthened.

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

So again, that only lasts 3 seconds. the moment it stops burning that goes away. That video shows its pull barely changing during its entire flight.

Long chord wings with tail control not suprised

[Morvran]

@Fireball_2020

No… the guidance time is gaijin picked and obviously should be lengthened.

@vizender

Also, guidance time is most probably correct, as discussed with @Fireball_2020 in PM.

Can you two make up your mind please?

[Xeno_quaza]

Their approach was half just messing with aero until the missile became super stable by cranking up performance numbers.

I’ve personally tried fixes using sets of time to gain modifiers to make TVC pull exceptionally hard AoA then stabilize, but it wasn’t perfect. The thing I don’t get with warthunder’s existing time to PID logic controllers is why the intervals are so long, like they don’t actually ever try adjusting the values mid burn.

[joze5]

Spaghetti-code working on crutches ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[vizender]

@Morvran_

Which is still far lower than the 50G it has on TVC.

Missile is still capable of making 50G in game purely aerodynamically. I am not certain there are sources for the MICA specifically, but I would expect it to be somewhat accurate since the ASTER dart, being very similar, is capable of doing 60G on its own at similar stated top speeds

TVC on the MICA particularly only helps at lower speeds for the missile to achieve these 50G when it does not have the purely aerodynamical capabilities to do that. I would not be able to tell you at which speeds the MICA goes from not being able to do 50G to doing it, but its currently above Mach 1.5-Mach2 in game. This means that TVC buff would still have a very large impact for at least 1-2s after launch from a subsonic aircraft, overall giving better turning radius than current MICA implementation (since TVC does not give the 50G at the lower speeds due to its deflection limitations as of now).
I believe the video also implements the 100°/s instantaneous turn, but don’t quote me on that.

@Fireball_2020

No… the guidance time is gaijin picked and obviously should be lengthened

You sure about that ? We discussed time to hit values and said that at 80km range with new lofting it was probably fine as is in game. The current issue is the artificial 50km limit, not the total guidance time

[Fireball_2020]

@vizender

You sure about that ? We discussed time to hit values and said that at 80km range with new lofting it was probably fine as is in game. The current issue is the artificial 50km limit, not the total guidance time

70s is really quite low, its not the primary cause of peoples issues but doesnt help either.

[vizender]

@Xeno_quaza

The thing I don’t get with warthunder’s existing time to PID logic controllers is why the intervals are so long, like they don’t actually ever try adjusting the values mid burn

My guess is that it’s the same reason the number of audio tracks were limited to clearly not enough for a player to hear every vehicles around him : Gaijin is unwilling to upgrade their servers and artificially limits the number of processes that happen each « game tick », since everything happens server side

[Morvran]

@vizender

Missile is still capable of making 50G in game purely aerodynamically. I am not certain there are sources for the MICA specifically, but I would expect it to be somewhat accurate since the ASTER dart, being very similar, is capable of doing 60G on its own at similar stated top speeds

So based upon an entirely different missile, you think the MICA can aerodynamically pull 50G?

@vizender

I believe the video also implements the 100°/s instantaneous turn, but don’t quote me on that.

A seocndary source at best, so shouldnt be implemented (but you never know with France at the moment)

@vizender

TVC on the MICA particularly only helps at lower speeds for the missile to achieve these 50G when it does not have the purely aerodynamical capabilities to do that. I would not be able to tell you at which speeds the MICA goes from not being able to do 50G to doing it, but its currently above Mach 1.5-Mach2 in game. This means that TVC buff would still have a very large impact for at least 1-2s after launch from a subsonic aircraft, overall giving better turning radius than current MICA implementation (since TVC does not give the 50G at the lower speeds due to its deflection limitations as of now).

Though again… if the acceleration is essentially doubled (1000m/s in 3 seconds vs 1100m/s in 7 seconds) then the turn radius would increase. Even if the TVC was MASSIVELY buffed, the turn radius would only stay the same not halve.

These physics are just not computing for me.

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

you think the MICA can aerodynamically pull 50G?

So can asraam?

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

you think the MICA can aerodynamically pull 50G?

Based on MBDA’s own claims too… yes?

[Xeno_quaza]

The thing is that making the updates closer together for time to PID logics wouldn’t increase the amount of operations per tick. Over the period of a single missile being fired the total amount of actions involved would be the same, it would literally only be higher on a per second scale, and I don’t think dagor is stressed enough to where a single extra operation per second would break it.

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

Though again… if the acceleration is essentially doubled (1000m/s in 3 seconds vs 1100m/s in 7 seconds) then the turn radius would increase. Even if the TVC was MASSIVELY buffed, the turn radius would only stay the same not halve.

I think the radius arguement is false, i think somebody said the model was given very high aerodynamic lift efficiency to remain stable… which obviosuly buffed the pull to basically be constant 50g off the rail.

[Morvran]

ASRAAM is designed purely for that though and is far smaller and has significantly higher acceleration.

MICA being both 50G+ with TVC and 50G aerodynamically and having high levels of acceleration and being able to travel 80km all in a single weapon is jsut rediculous.

Though if its true. MCIA IR is never getting added thats for sure.

[Zannafrancy]

You’re putting words in his mouth tho

[Fireball_2020]

@Morvran_

and has significantly higher acceleration.

Based on? Both have a very similar burn time. Mica has slightly more fuel but is heavier.

[Morvran]

Then that explains why the video just looks outlandish to me. I cant see the MICAs turn radius really changing at all

[Fireball_2020]

Indeed, i would focus more on the kinetics than anything else.

[Zannafrancy]

Su35s? Yeah that would provide competition. F15ex really wouldn’t though. It’s still a brick with missiles that turn like a brick.

[Fireball_2020]

@Zannafrancy

missiles that turn like a brick.

So fix them then.