The SPS-20(V) will be on the new Mig-29 Sniper (at least that’s the latest I know), also, regarding the Kfir C10’s BR, I have no problem with its modification, in fact, when the I-Derby-ER and Python 5 missiles are added it will go up, that’s why more modern avionics (like the Colombian Kfir actually has) will be necessary. Many people say that it would not be good to add this to the Kfir because it is “fine” like that, I think it SHOULD be faithful to reality.
In that case, then yeah, its an easy add. I’ve been trying to get the FRS1 (SQV) to get an upgraded RWR, especially ever since the AV-8S (Late) at the same BR got basically the same RWR last major.
Eh… It probably wont. They may add another version for the TT (like they did for the F3 into the F3 late) but there are plenty of examples where aircraft were limited in their loadout for the sake of maintaining a BR. It will probably remain at 13.0 with the current loadout. Maybe getting Python-4s, that is about it I can see for it.
Kfir C10 (late) for the TT with those missile would also be the most sensible option.
I do also get this. But its not always a good thing, remember that for example the Kfir C10 with Python 5 and I-Derby-ER would likely be facing Typhoons with ASRAAM and Meteors. It is rather heavily outgunned with only 4 missiles.
There are more than a few examples of aircraft that could get upgrades (like Tornado Gr1 did use Aim-9Ms and Jaguar Gr1 did use Aim-9Ls) but I wouldnt want them to get it, because the aircraft performs so much better at the lower BRs (yes mud mover is a different entirely, but principle is sound)
So, equipment and avionics. definetly should be accurate, but loadout… There is an argument to be had to keeping it at 13.0 where it seems to perform rather well. Than being 14.0 + where it might be hopelessly outmatched. At worst, add best of both worlds and do an F3/Viggen D and keep one at 13.0 and add another at 14.0+
You’re right my friend, in many cases the Kfir C10 is an interesting vehicle because it won’t be the strongest in the top tier, but we forget about the mechanics necessary for the inclusion of the most modern armament for aircraft in the game (for example EW and ECM) - that’s the big difference. I think the easiest thing would be to add the armament to the existing Kfir and increase its Br, another aircraft is impossible because look at the radar, that makes it the most modern version of the Kfir in the game. I don’t know much about the British TT but I know that Typhoon needs the Radar in its best version, in that case it makes sense (maybe because it’s the first version of it in the game) but in the Kfir C10 it’s the only way.
That would certainly help, but again, it wouldnt necessarily be in a vacuum, whatever it faces would have equal or maybe even better,
Again, doesnt necessarily preclude anything.
Only difference between the F3 and the F3 Late is the Aim-9Ms and Aim-120Bs. The rest of the airframe is identical. The Viggen DI has a different cockpit (or at least is meant to) and Aim-120Bs instead of Skyflash. But ultimately, the only difference between the 2 airframes is the weapons. Same Radar, RWRs and CMs on both. So it wouldnt be the first time.
(in the viggens case especially, the VIggen D upgrade was primarily to add Aim-120 to the airframe. So they had to add the Viggen Di so that they could leave the Viggen D with an (ahistorical) Skyflash DF fit at 12.0 and add another Viggen D with Aim-120 at 13.0)
Was the best solution imo
Im fearing that we’ll get a second Typhoon for CAPTOR-E in years+ time.
In fact, the Kfir C10 is rated 13 Br due to its armament when it was included, but the truth is it should be higher Br because the missiles I mentioned before are not yet available. Anyway, my friend, I’ve done a lot of research on the Kfir and will continue fighting to make it a decent vehicle in the game I love. I also want you to know that I will support all the players who defend their favorite vehicles, like you, with arguments that I will also research so that the snail listens to us and we fully enjoy the game we invest our free time in. Thanks for listening, bro. This thread will continue.
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I am in favour of the kfir c.10 blk 60 getting its LWS, MAWS, EEGS, Spice A2G ordinace and the correct RWR. However the I-Derby ER would force it up in BR, against objectively better planes like the gripen, F-15C, Su-30, rafale, etc. Missiles like the python 4 or 5 would make the aircraft suffer in the current climate due to the aforementioned BR increase, even though the missiles themselves are good. Its the fact that you cant carry a lot of them that really lets down the plane.
Maybe if the game was decompressed by a few BRs, then the I Derby ER could be added to the jet, but it is not a wise idea at the moment. If the Kfir C.10 Blk 60 had the ability to carry more missiles - at least 2 more - then i would agree, but sadly it cannot. The only upgraded Mirage III/V platform that i can think of that could carry more than 4 is the Cheetah C, which theoretically can carry 5.
Why does the rwr matter? They’re literally the EXACT same rwr in game.
in files the ONLY difference is the name
I don’t know why you understand the increase in BR in par with the missiles, look at this: Currently the Kfir also faces the Gripen, Su-30, Rafale, etc. These planes also do not have the top missiles (Aim9x, Iris t, Meteor, Aim120C, etc.) When they add these missiles for all these planes, will their BR also increase? So when they include these missiles, they should also include the P5 and the Derby ER to the Kfir (Israel planes) because if not instead of “staying at the BR” it will go down, I think it will be the same. But the nice thing will be that the Kfir C10 will be complete and historical (at least in armament)
Bro, if that’s true, the SPS-20 will be better for one reason: This RWR belongs to the ECM suite. If you look at the Kfir brochure, it will tell you it has a full suite, but the SPS-200 is very old. I’m surprised they’re equal in gameplay, even though one is more modern than the other
Yeah mate when the MICA IR, R-74, IRIS-T, ASRAAM, AIM-9X, Python-4 and Python-5 come out yeah itll cause the BR cap to go up and subsequent jets to go up. What clearly went over your head is the fact that the Kfir C.10 Block 60 would suffer even more than it does now if these missiles are given to the jet. Ah yes, i would love to fight Su-30s with an even more busted R-73 as well as the Rafales with the MICA IRs against my 4 missiles, 3rd gen airframe, and my mediocre amount of Countmeasures every. Single. Game. The kfir currently sits at a rather favorable battle rating. Even if the cap goes up with IIR missiles, the Kfir blk 60 would jump at least 1-2 BRs if the IIR missiles are introduced. You cant fight F-4S’s with a Python-4. That would be unfair.
Just because something can use something does not mean it should be added. Think about it. The MiG-23MLD could use the R-73-- but it doesnt; in game because it would go up in BR and get curbstomped by 4th gen airframes constantly. The Kfir blk 60 and the Python 4 let alone 5 are the same way. Yeah they would technically make the jet better- but put it at a BR that would force it to suffer.
As for total historical accuracy in war thunder. My verdict is no. War thunder is an inherently arcade-esque game with historical balance to it. If you want the pinnacle of historical accuracy in a war game, look at DCS or Arma or any other War game that specializes in it!
ECM isn’t modeled
Pros and cons: the Kfir C10’s advantages are its AESA radar, excellent speed, flight control, among others. Should it have the missiles for which its power is known? A resounding yes.
It’s irrelevant because it depends; it’s a TT vehicle, not a minor nation’s vehicle.
It’s just your point of view, your opinion. I’m not demanding absolute precision (if you look at the number of reports and the length of the threads about aircraft like the Rafale, the F15, and others, this pales in comparison). But definitely, with those missiles, the Colombian Kfir C10 Blk 60 will be 70% of the real Colombian Kfir C10 Blk 60.
I know, but it will be modeled, I hope
Yes.
Look at Harrier T10 with Aim-9Ls vs Harrier Gr7 with Aim-9Ms. Basically the same airframe (if anything the T10 is slightly better as it has the better engine) but the Gr7 is a full BR higher.
or Gripen A vs Gripen C with the introduction of AMRAAM
More than likely the introduction of Python 5 or I-Derby would result in the Kfir C10 moving to 14.0+ as it would be insane to remain at 13.0 alongside an aircraft like the Viggen Di with Aim-9Ls and Aim-120A. (Kfir already has a better radar and RWR than the Viggen)
What im hoping for something like the Typhoon, is for the Typhoon F2 to be added at 14.0 (M-Scan radar, Aim-9Ms, and Aim-120Bs) and the Typhoon FGR4 to increase in BR with the intro of ASRAAM.
Im just hoping the E-Scan radar isnt being reserved for a FGR4 (late) variant with Meteor.
There is no C.10 late, it entered service with the Python 5 and I-Derby, and I believe eventually getting the I-Derby ER but possibly also having it at the start.
The C.10 B60 never even used the Python 3, nor did the regular C.10, as they started with the Python 5 and Python 4 in their service. The only other vehicles that can be added are the Kfir C.10 (which is the what the B60 upgrade was applied to), the Kfir C.12 (which is a C.10 without the radar, think Kfir C.7 with Python 4/5s), the Kfir TC.10 (think two seat C.12), and the IAI Kfir 2000, which was a testbed C.2 for the C.10 upgrade and has been suggested here and passed to the devs (it even has a marketplace skin for the C.10 B60 rn).
The only way a second C.10 B60 shows up is if the fabled Sri Lanka modernization actually happens and is competed, but it was supposed to be complete earlier this year last I checked…
This is gaijin we are talking about. They will find a way.
Heck. We got Viggen D & Viggen DI for the TT and Viggen Di F21 for a premium.
Im sure they can bodge a version if they wanted.
This isnt uncommon
It could always happen yeah, gaijin do gaijin things, but I don’t really see how they’d do it. For instance with the 37Di, the premium one has a unique name and acts as a unique aircraft it’s visually modeled after. I don’t see anything TT/researchable like that ingame as it seems reserved for premiums (like the Fuji), so I don’t see that changing. For instance the Black Kfir skin, I forget what it’s called but they gave it a unique skin and sick name, would have been the only thing I realistically expected as a unique “variant”, but it’s just a skin from the event. Perhaps they’ll add some kind of premium or squadron variant, but I really really do not see this happening.
Other than a Sri Lanka variant, perhaps Columbia will further upgrade their B60s, perhaps someday they’ll equip other IR AMMs and ARH AAMs, such as a different type of IR missile or maybe acquire the Sky Spear whenever (if ever) it becomes available on the foreign export market. That would be a nice “late” variant.
What I can tell you now is that the Kfir C.10 Block 60 will almost absolutely get the Python 4 someday, and possibly the Python 5 far in the future. It very likely will get the I-Derby, and also possibly the I-Derby ER someday. Perhaps gaijin will limit it to the Python 4 and I-Derby, and withhold the Python 5 and I-Derby ER, but then the question becomes what Kfir variant would they give it to? The C.10 B60 absolutely shouldn’t be limited to the Python 3 as it’s top IR AAM however, especially given no columbian Kfir C.10 even used it (actually I don’t think Columbia even has Python 3s).
C.10 did use Python 3’s, but only on Ecuadorian Kfir C.10s as far as I’m aware, designated Kfir CE. B60 was never spotted with them
I was pointing out was I’ve never seen them in columbian service afaik, and although they’re compatible, they’re really an ahistorical addition to its armament, and it being it top IR missile is… quite dumb imo. Ik Ecuador used the Python 3 and Python 4 on their Kfirs (they even uniquely used the Python 3 on their super tucanos, and both the P3 and P4 on their Mirage F1s >:] mwahaha), but it’s still an Ecuadorian aircraft, not a columbian one.
Essentially I find that the fact it’s top IR AAM is one it never used to be quite dumb, and I don’t really think it will (or should) stay that way.
I jus want the colombians or Sri Lanka to upgrade the airframe to give it more A2A missile pylons 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏