aaaand no
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well then suffer int full 14.0 uptiers with AIm7M and dream you get down tiered to 12.0 once ever 100 games
It’s not. The F-16AJ uses an entirely different airframe based on the Block 10, no prototype was ever built. The YF-16A was not an AJ prototype, the Sparrow testing happened before the F-16 was proposed to Japan and was completely unrelated.
It’s also far from realistic considering Gaijin changed even the paper F-16AJ design to a point where it didn’t even meet the minimum requirements it was supposed to meet.
If Gaijin wanted to add the Super Kai the same way they did the F-16AJ then they would add it as just a normal F-2, let it carry AMRAAM but only on the four existing MRM stations and remove JDAM.
They’d also insist the XF-2A was a Super Kai prototype and debate not giving it radar (happened for the AJ somehow).
hence the quotation marks
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Yeah fair enough. But if the YF-16A flying counts for the F-16AJ, then so does ADTW (X)F-2s flying count for the F-2 Super Kai.
Neither of them was prototyped, but had the same level of success. I also don’t think we’d ever see the F-2SK, but the F-16AJ will never be a good reference for anything because it’s a mistake.
Not even because of a subjective opinion, but because it’s based on multiple misconceptions, like how Gaijin thought Japanese pilots flew the YF-16 and the Sparrow tests were made for Japan.
So it can’t really be used as a “If we got X, we should have Y” reference. Even Gaijin said it was only an exception when they found out and wouldn’t happen again.
The difference is that Gaijin (not me) believed that the YF-16A was a testbed for a future F-16AJ (obviously it wasn’t), whereas the XF-2 ADTWs were testbeds for future Japanese technology and domestic F-2 upgrades, not the F-2 Super Kai which was proposed by Lockheed Martin with zero prototype or testing to refer to.
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The F-15JSI and F-2A Super Kai are still viable options.
Let’s not pretend War Thunder only includes fully operational, mass-produced vehicles. We already have things like the AHS, Mi-28A and T-80U in the Swedish tree, and the F-16AJ was added despite existing only as a proposal. It filled a gap at the time and worked fine for balance. None of these were removed like the R2Y2s, and there’s clearly a reason for that.
Realistically, most people aren’t grinding Japan just to play Malaysian Su-30MKM, F/A-18D or Thai Gripens. On top of that, many players are disappointed with the performance of the F-15J(M) and the F-2A.
The F-15JSI upgrade is already funded and just waiting on implementation.
The F-2A Super Kai may have been cancelled, but documentation on its planned configuration exists.
If neither of these are added, the only real step left is the F-35A Lightning II, and it’s hard to believe the tree would just jump straight to that with nothing in between.
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While I also really wish the Super Kai was possible, it’s a rather bad idea because it opens the door to a flood of proposed, fictional designs and I don’t want Warthunder to be filled with those.
You know, the entire point of Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia top tier is to give options to Japan at BRs where otherwise they would have none
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It was added because Gaijin thought it was more than a proposal. They made a mistake, but they won’t just add entirely paper proposals on purpose. The last time they did that on purpose was old ground top tier for Germany and Japan where we got the Tiger 105, FlaK 341 and Ho-Ri Prototype* as “paper” options to fill in alongside fictional Panther II and Ho-Ri Production
*
Ho-Ri Prototype is technically also fictional, but that was only a misunderstanding from a mockup, not on purpose. Meanwhile Panther II and Ho-Ri Production actively take different historical projects and fictional ideas to make better matches for Allied/Soviet top tier at the time
So far vehicles like that were removed as soon as we got replacements for them, so for example once the Thai F-16A-15 OCU is corrected the F-16AJ could also be moved out of the tree like we’ve seen for the German vehicles or the R2Y2s.
We should probably also wait for that implementation to be sure it can be added accurately. Right now information on it is still limited.
It wasn’t cancelled because it was never started. It was a Lockheed proposal for an Americanized upgraded F-2 next to the F-35 to provide a low-cost option after Japans 5th gen development was cancelled. But in the end the F-35 was the one being chosen.
If you want another F-2, ADTW F-2A 63-8501 was fitted with a new radar system made for Japans domestic 6th gen development and could be a great option for a higher BR F-2 with more advanced missiles if Gaijin don’t want to move the current one up.
By Gaijin’s logic it can exist to fill a gap which is japan after 13.7. No the Malaysian subtree is not what fills that gap. The F2 is still very limited at 13.7 with the f15jm performing much better than it. Many of us want to see an improved f2 which wouldn’t be game breaking with only 4 fox3 and low speed.
One of the main points of subtrees is providing options where there’s otherwise none specifically to prevent having to go for entirely paper or even fictional vehicles.
I’m all for other F-2/F-15 variants in the tree and more Japanese domestic missiles like AAM-5(B) and AAM-4B being introduced, but the Super Kai is only a Lockheed proposal with no Japanese involvement and it didn’t get much interest before being rejected in favor of the F-35.
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It is, that’s like 90% of why this subtree exists currently
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There’s going to be a gap from 13.7 to whatever br 5th gen f35 will go to which would be an extremely long time away as its the one of the last jets to be addded to the game. There will be players who grind only japanese planes so they get the minimum requirement of 5 jets in rank 8 to jump to a f35. And Germany got a switzerland subtree in air when it fills no gap in Germany’s br. You can’t treat subtrees as a fix so you can ignore other domestic options. Gaijin treated the Malaysian subtree as kill two birds with one stone situation to please Malaysian players and add 14.3 top tier to japan. Well now that japanese tt players are “happy” with being able to play top tier, add 13.7+ Japanese planes. A majority of Japanese players started the air tree to fly the f2 and f15, being handed a su30sm, rafale, and then a gripen e is not what we expected. And honestly it kills the hype for us to even grind sweden, france, and russia to get the exact same top tier plane. Since we have Malaysia for now, put a pause on indonesia and thailand and focus on the japanese lines first. Gaijin has to give japanese players a reason to stick around and wait for the japanese f35. Spoonfeeding us copy paste when there’s still more to be added for japan is ridiculous.
And there’s other options than a pure proposal. We could still get F-15s with new missiles and improved ECM equipment and IRST pod, maybe EW equipped F-15DJ, as well as ADTW F-2 with upgraded radar. All of these could come with improved missiles to bridge the gap to F-35s that will probably only sit at 15.0 anyways.
Yeah true, Gaijin really isn’t treating any nation fairly when it comes to subtrees. The “host” nations just get cheap band-aid solutions where other options could’ve been, while the subtree nations get treated as a cheap band-aid solution instead of a proper nation.
That said the gap between the F-15/F-2 and F-35 isn’t a place where this is an issue for Japan. The options that are there still have their issues like the limited missile load of even the upgraded ADTW F-2 and the F-15s still being stuck with APG-63(V)1 until the JSI comes around, so for the sake of gameplay having more meta aligned options is still something people would ask for.
Now of course there will be players that just don’t want to play non-Japanese planes, and that’s perfectly fine, but it’s also a conscious choice not to use options that are there to combat the gameplay gap. And a choice isn’t a reason to ask for something out of line like entirely paper aircraft.
what about that IRST testbed F-15? ( i know hardly a buff but might still be an option)
Actually would go before our current F-15J(M), as it was actually derived from the type 1 modernization, not the type 2 modernization of our current J(M).
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