Missing visualization of reward from hits, still not addressed for the 4 month, you need to fix it ASAP they gave player the information how good he is shooting, making gameplay engaging when naval gameplay already have player entertainment problems. Please fixit with this major. We miss the “numbers”
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/4fLeLZvd6K6a
The root cause of all of Air RB’s problems lies with the objectives and win conditions, man. You say my ideas would “help make it quake with planes,” but it already is this, functionally-speaking.
Fighters being able to win games without caring if the bombers or attackers on their own team do anything at all disfavors even the smallest degree of cooperation, let alone actual teamwork.
Bombers leveling the runway before most fighters have had a chance to climb to altitude and auto-winning matches is fundamentally just as bad! This currently still happens occasionally - I’ve done it myself, not squadded at all. The He-111H-3’s 8x250kg firebomb loadout can one-tap the runways on low tier maps. I did it myself just a couple weeks ago. Is it funny? Yes it is. Is it balanced? Absolutely not.
Attackers being able to sweep most or all the tickets in sub-5min on certain maps even today before fighters have gotten to altitude or bombers have gotten to target is also just as fundamentally bad.
Each objective, when performed, stomps on the relevance of the others - this is the root problem. Fighters doing their job should enable nonfighters to do theirs, not prevent such by the game automatically ending. Vice versa for bombers leveling the runway auto-ending the game before fighters can climb to and accelerate to useful speeds.
Bombers and Attackers cannot be made more relevant unless they have actual space to do so. Right now they don’t, even with some low tier maps having destructible runways currently. If the enemy team melts, game auto-ends whether your bomber has gotten to target or not. Due to how fast enemy teams melt, this only encourages idiotic “dive into the furball and hope to take one or more with you” sort of gameplay.
ALL of the autowin bleeds need removal. Each of the three objectives - A2A, CAS, and Bombing - should be fundamentally impossible to win games entirely on their own. This would then force players of different plane classes to work together. Suddenly your team can’t ignore the bombers on your own side whether they live or die. If they die without doing much, then your sides’ fighters may have to go try doing a job they aren’t well-equipped for and take way longer to end the round.
This only happens if you’re playing against the least experienced players on the planet. Oh look, the He-111’s BR is 2.7, a BR where you are fighting teams consisting of 80% inexperienced players. Colour me shocked that inexperienced players do not grasp the functions of the game and instead go for dogfight furballs.
And as your claims fail in the face of testing, aside in similar cases of going against the inept, I generally don’t want to engage with you further on this topic as it will only lead to my frustration. You fundamentally do not grasp how the systems work, and how they encourage gameplay. Map size, map time, fundamental gameplay designs that restrict the functionality or threat of bombers, all go towards making bombers generally free loot to even half intelligent fighters. Your claims run directly counter to actual practice, and I would have to assume you’re a new player on account of them, or someone who sticks to low BRs and seal clubs.
Removing their relevance further, instead of making them more of a threat coupled with improvements to fundamental gameplay design just cements the quake-like nature of those who cry only fighters should be present. Every platform should be capable of winning the game, this change means only bombers can’t (Until higher BRs, where attackers that aren’t multirole will run into the same issue). Teamwork is not facilitated by the changes you envision, they just mean every person does what they want with little a care to teamwork. It fundamentally requires a redesign from the ground up if you want to encourage teamwork, and your approach is not it.
It really is a shame that ARB gameplay degraded to this point.
The ticket bleed has been nerfed to hell because most high tier fighters are multirole planes and can perform the same jobs as attackers and bombers (in a lot of cases they are even better at those jobs).
We are in dire need of a seperate ARB EC mode and the new World War mode they are working really cannot come soon enough.
It’s easier to push the game to the attention addled if the only way to influence the game is zerg and take as many with you as possible. ARB should be pushed further towards EC but they won’t. This change to bombers taking away their only means of influencing the battle is generally the final nail in the coffin.
Like we need even more overpowered cas. If they ever add that they better add the active homing brimstones.
subsonic brick very op
I have played this game for more than ten years. I know what the problems are - I started with prop planes many years ago.
The win conditions are the underlying cause of all the problems bombers have. The current system only allows one of three to be achieved, and how two of those three work (automatic, unstoppable, continuous ticket bleed until enemy team’s tickets hit zero), either of those being achieved renders contributions toward the others irrelevant.
If fighters obliterate the enemy team and their autowin bleed triggers, contributions by attackers and bombers do not matter. The fighter bleed will take things to zero regardless of what they did.
If bombers level the runway and their autowin bleed triggers, contributions by attackers and fighters does not matter. The bomber runway bleed will take things to zero regardless of what either did.
Attackers do not have an autowin automatic ticket bleed, but some maps have ground units so carelessly placed that in less than five minutes a coordinated squad can sweep most or all of them (Tunisia for instance). In that case, it matters very little what fighters or bombers do - attackers wiping all the tickets make both irrelevant.
I don’t know how to spell things out any more clearly. Yes, taking away bomber runway destruction is currently a “wrong” thing to do. But then doing the same to the fighter autowin bleed (another “wrong”) would ironically make a “right” from two “wrongs.”
But if you fail to grasp just what I am talking about, and resort to unnecessary insults instead, that’s on you, buddy… I don’t seal-club in low ranks, but I do go play in low ranks to re-spade planes which get new ordinance options - where exactly else am I going to get that done? And why wouldn’t I then test out those new ordinance options after a brief Google Search how they work?
FYI, I am not one of the “fighter mafia” types who “cry only fighters should be present.” I don’t like the “air quake” nature of the mode any more than you do.
In my proposed ideas, fighters doing their job will knock out 50% of the ticket bar. This includes AI Attacker kills. The other 50% would then be expected to come from bomber and attacker work.
Any platform capable of performing multiple jobs could in theory do both A2A and CAS/Bombing work. This lays down a new framework which better objectives for nonfighters can be laid down upon, because now all three objectives are guaranteed to matter to the outcome of every single round.
If you still don’t understand, then I don’t know what to tell you.
AGM-130 also lacks GNSS guidance that it should have…
GNSS dosent do anything for optically guided weapons ingame
besides being useless on the statcard
yet 😉
They had to use their minimum words for their essay somehow yk
In theory, yes it should. This can be achieved via either 1. totally replacing Air RB with RB EC or 2. Upending the objectives in a manner inspired by EC.
What I have been attempting to explain to you is in the latter category. EC games have one common win condition - bleed out enemy tickets via any means necessary. Everything counts towards victory, no matter how small an action.
That was functionally what I was proposing, adapted to the one-life architecture of Air RB.
You can’t replace normal Air RB with EC for many reasons. One, EC requires a different way to find games than just pressing a button and queuing up for a match. EC games take longer to finish/win, assuming one team doesn’t vanish (they normally do after 1.5 hours).
What they can do in the short term is improve the conditions for winning other than ‘kill everyone on opposite team’. A quick fix for this is simply removing no respawns and replacing it with a small number of allowed respawns max (not counting exiting vehicle, but actual deaths). That way, you can go back and forth from airfield to rearm/change loadout as many times as needed as long as the match hasn’t ended. There would also need to be have a reworked ticket bleed as you can’t exactly do all this with the current system in place as games would and could still end in 15 mins or less with a team filled of players exclusively going for AI targets or bases.
As I told you, you fundamentally misunderstand the problems at hand. On account of having recently argued with staff, and having presented a history of arguing with staff, I do not plan on engaging with you further, as I am quite partial to not getting banned for calling a spade a spade when it comes to my feelings towards your positions.
You are stuck observing the game from a lower rating standpoint, which is not an insult, but it does introduce fundamental misunderstandings in your assessment. I play attackers throughout the BRs, including toptier. You are assessing things from the position of someone who’s engaged with these systems at the BRs where they can have ill outcomes on account of inexperience.
The autowin conditions are not the fault. If anything, they would encourage greater teamwork. But the game does not incentivise using teamwork to address them because of the limited means and/or time to communicate, coupled with the language barriers introducing further degradations to communication.
To further present your misunderstanding and highlight why I can’t be bothered engaging with you:
Attackers on Tunisia cannot remove all the tickets. I know, because I tried. I know, because I tested it at every BR. It does not happen. Likewise, the fighters removing the other team effectively swaps those fighters over to strike platforms, and they will be significantly better at it on account of being faster at lower ratings, with cannons adequate to destroy the majority of targets. At higher BRs, they often can carry the same ordnance as attackers, which guess what that means? Oh you got it, they can do the job of attackers better. Again. So the fighter ticket bleed needs to remain, unless you’re inclined to encourage the further suffering of attacker players. Finally, the win condition of bombers would facilitate greater importance of the work of fighters to escort those bombers, if the win condition remained present and the community engaged in teamwork. Except, shock horror, communication is dissuaded so teamwork will fall to the wayside.
As I said, you fundamentally misunderstand the faults and incentive the gameplay introduces.
Fun fact - there have been events where the fighter autowin bleed doesn’t trigger because the main objective is something different (Guardian Angel continued until the bombers did their job even after all enemy interceptors were shot down). Occasionally in Air RB games, the fighter autowin bleed bugged out and didn’t trigger at all. People just munched on ground units to bleed the remaining tickets.
It’s an even quicker fix to delete the fighter autowin bleed than it is to do what you proposed. We already can despawn on the runway and swap ordinance as much as we like (some folk abuse it to let runway AAA kill their pursuers and thereby pad K/Ds).
I am quite aware the “gremlin script” AI self-destruction ticket bleed is also an issue. But it is not as urgent as removing the fighter autowin bleed is.
Yeah, you and I clearly don’t understand each other much at all.
Why do fighters need to care what becomes of the bombers and attackers on their own team when simply wiping the enemy team via deathmatch will guaranteed auto-win the game? This dis-incentivizes teamwork.
This is the root cause of the whole mode’s mess as far as I am concerned.
Bombers wiping the airbase in years past is the same as this. It is just as terrible of an objective, and always has been. Misplaced nostalgia factor makes it funny to win games with because its so uncommon, but nostalgia =/= balanced gameplay in the slightest.
I have not played on the map in a while, so I had remembered it as being a bit of an issue. If that is not the case anymore, then I will admit my information regarding that map is outdated.
Fighters removing the other team automatically ends the match. Dedicated attackers, tactical bombers, or fighters going back to the runway to grab ordinance have no relevance because the round automatically ends the moment the last enemy player is toast. I don’t see an issue with a P-47D going and grabbing bombs/rockets to act as an attacker, given it often did that to great success in reality. Same with any other prop fighter that happens to possess a good CAS loadout or strong cannons. At that point, the plane becomes an attacker.
The fighter ticket bleed means that there is no other job left to do once the enemy team is wiped out. Most real operations demanded first clearing the skies and then something else (bombing/CAS or preventing invading forces from doing those to you). But ingame, clearing the skies is the only objective that matters. The others lack the time to matter in the current setup.
I admit, I don’t play in higher ranks for several reasons.
Keep on replying to me, and I will keep responding. Don’t like what I say, then stop replying to me. Simple as that.
Pretty sure they carried over the progress from last dev server instead of synchronizing with live this time
It’s like that for me too
