I would need to see the relative positions in this scenario but rule of thumb, unless the target finds itself in the 90° cone in front of F-4S at the time of the launch, the missile simply will not connect.
Decompression
Even if they decompress though, with the way gaijin handles BRs the F-4J(UK) might end up a higher BR than the F-4S
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Weaker SARH and no Napalm alone should mean it’s 11.7 and whilst the lack of HMS is minor, it’s not nothing either and it certainly shouldn’t be the same BR as the F-4S with agile eagle. Even the FGR2/FG1 hold some advantage in the form of more powerful engines and extra CMs.
It’s hard to justify the F4JUK to be 12.0 when the Mig23MLD outclasses it so completely at 11.7 and is weaker than all other 12.0 Phantoms
Especially baffling is SB where the F4JUK is 12 0 Vs the FGR2 being 11.3
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The Aim-9G/H has more than enough pull for me personally, and although it isn’t something like a top of the line missile or an Aim-9L, it’s materiality isn’t all too lacking for me personally. It being rear aspect only is a detriment to the addition of HMS, yes.
However, I’ve found myself in multiple scenarios where having the HMD let me gain, or more specially regain locks on targets preflaring, while also being able to pull enormous amounts of lead for the missile without needing to worry to much about losing lock while leading it. That’s an advantage for me personally, even if it doesn’t happen much, it’s net me quite a few kills over the years.
As for me being in that situation in the first place, I’m a really aggressive F-4S flyer when I do use it. I preemptively slot in behind targets to use that trick, and force an overshoot to get the shot off. I don’t lose too much speed and found it to be quite effective in catching people off guard as they try and fail to take a gun kill, only to be perfectly lined up. (Ignore my player stats on it, I played it a lot back in the day to grind out the tree and wasn’t exactly very good to begin with. I’ve vastly improved since then lol)
For me personally, it’s really important when it comes to gaining a radar lock in a situation like turning into a target and gaining the lock just that much quicker to get the missile warmed up and fired off. It can also be helpful for getting a gun solution in a dogfight. For gaining a lock on a target out of a blob, not too helpful due to the fact the size of the HMD and ACM acquisition is quite large compared to other aircraft, but if you use it right you can indeed gain a lock better than you might have without HMD. To some it may not be a worthy enough reason to justify a higher BR than an identical aircraft without it, but for me personally it changes a lot and allows me to adopt a different, and more aggressive/effective playstyle in the aircraft. Perhaps it’s just me, but I find its addition a really handy tool/feature for the phantoms with it, and I find it to be something I really missed when playing the F-4EJ Kai (not for its IR AAMs, but rather the SARH AAMs).
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the situations where agile eagle on F-4S comes into play are situations you dont want to find your Phantom to be in the first place.
weaker SARHs are valid point, and those alone would validate lower BR.
You’d hope so, but so far we’re 0 for 3.
being able to just pull your nose around a long better and have better rates are just good things to have in general, you dont have to be fighting for your life. It’s also nice for F-4S because it gives it a top FM for a gen3 platform (as in, its one of the best gen3 FM) and it can be competitive if you isolate ppl
dont get me wrong, i like them. i just dont find them to get so much use out of HMS for it to be such improvement as most people portray it.
as i stated, it does have some case uses where having HMS is objectively an advantage. but like what, 95% of launches would happen the same with or without HMS.
dont worry im not the one to pull stats into argument unless the other person is being jerk. my stats arent that good anyway too, im casual where it comes to air.
again, it has its case uses (like the aforementioned picking target out of blob), but 95% of the sparrow launches would happen the same HMS or not.
it is objective upgrade, but i dont find it that gamechanging due to aforementioned issues of missiles that are found on the HMS phantoms.
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Just defending against a Aim54, AMRAAM, Aim-7P or R-27ER would be made far easier by being able to notch that much faster
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i was under impression that more AoA you instantly pull the worse you rate?
yes it is good thing to have and it makes F-4S objective upgrade over J or british phantoms, but its still phantom with sparrows and rear aspect sidewinders. if it had for example 9Ls i would find it different matter entirely.
fair enough
7Ps have same flight characteristics as 7F/M. their strength comes from the fact that they are much more reliable when it comes to actually hitting the target thanks to IOG+datalink.
One thing I personally do, which I vaguely mentioned earlier, is force that 5% to happen more often. My preemptive turns give me a lot of shots with my sidewinders that I wouldn’t otherwise get with other aircraft. I can excessively lead my missile and launch it in a way that makes it a really hard to flare missile give it’s close proximity and range when launched. I’ll see if I can get a clip or two to demonstrate it if you don’t follow.
no need, i get the idea, i do it too. it just doesnt happen that often for me to see it as decisive advantage. but that prolly comes down to playstyle.
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Yep, but that IOG does require you to often be more aggressive than the Aim-7M in your defending…at least that is what I’ve found in the GR4
i find the datalink to be the thing that makes them actually good. fact that it can “hard correct” itself to locked target saved me from many blue-on-blue situations.
it also makes for some funny kills when it Javelins the enemy plane in top-down attack once in a blue moon.
Yep, either way, it probably would be best for if nothing else the F4JUK to go down in BR or get 9Ls
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id say even the TT british phantoms could go down a BR step with their current loadout (as in skyflash being ass), but im not entirely familiar with how much better their engines are.
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Better at low alt by quite a margin compared to the standard F-4. So greater acceleration and top speed. But also has a notable increase in weight which means it bleeds speed faster in turns. The engines provide no benefit when up high.
The main strength that is keeping the TT Phantoms even slightly in the fight is the 30 extra LCMs they get. But ultimately 12.0 and 12.3 are terribly compressed BRs
i mean that the one place id be in missile bus.
aye.