It would be cool if the flight profile can be optimized bit more, so that the Phoenix can achieve high speeds its known for. As currently it loses about 1000 kph in a 2 second manouver at low alt with fuel depleted, even at high altitudes it loses speed so fast.
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Drag is too high, that is the primary issue. Not loft profile.
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If I’m not mistaken, It also should be a 25g missile with BTT or whatever it is.
~22G, and it’s not bank-to-turn, rather just combined plane. The pitch axis is always between two sets of control fins.
Isn’t that what bank to turn is? Banking the missile as you turn to been the plane of the turn between the two missile planes?
Yes:
not only that, but from David_Bowie’s comments, Gaijin knows the AIM-54 utilizes BTT, they just don’t wanna model it because “To date, only the AIM-54 is the only missile in the WT that we believe can substantially utilize dual-plane maneuverability. All other missiles can only use dual plane maneuverability in limited circumstances.”
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Also from Bowie, there are multiple sources stating 25g’s. Unfortunately, as the old forums are falling apart, I no longer have access to his sources, but gaijin very much has the info available to them regarding the max pull being 25g, they just refuse to model it as mentioned above:
This isn’t a question of needing to find sources. Gaijin knows they’re modelling it incorrectly, its intentional, hence why I refuse to bug report anymore, its a waste of time when the only things that will ever get fixed are things gaijin WANTS to fix.
There’s no point in offering feedback or new sources. If the US declassified all AIM-54 docs tomorrow and gave exact details on every change, every performance metric, etc… gaijin would still model it as a 17g piece of flying garbage.
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I think most pieces of flying garbage would probably have lower drag than the AIM-54 does currently.
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Any idea where that comes from? I haven’t seen this document before.1983 is also right around when the AIM-54C would have been in testing.
Yeah lemme see i can dm it to u
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Bank to turn means there is only one pitch point, similar to a plane having only one vertical plane of maneuver as they are asymmetrical. The AIM-54 can pitch between any point between the control surfaces for combined plane… as well as rolls during pitch / flight as needed to maintain smaller corrective maneuvers and avoid oscillations or instability.
Bank to turn must roll the singular pitching axis towards target before pitching.
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I assume you mean like the R.511? I thought that was called twist to turn, or something like that?
The Meteor is marketed as bank to turn, but has two sets of ear fins.
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@_David_Bowie said that at the time because I also thought that, and that’s what I had suggested to him. Now I understand the difference better.
R.511 shows a single plane effort utilizing bank to turn, this is less stable as the yaw loses authority at higher angles of attack. Missiles like the Phoenix and meteor can maintain roll at high angles of attack courtesy of combined plane.
The difference between meteor and AIM-54 is that the meteor has only one pitch axis, AIM-54 can pitch in any of the four directions (technically 8) and can roll at the same time.
The turn feels way better. It still struggles against top tier jet, but that’s expected since it still has 17G instead of 25G. But when down tier and against target that is no longer supersonic, phoenix can be used occasionally.
Did a quick math on drag coefficient, please correct me if I’m wrong.
Aim-54 appears to have the drag coefficient roughly of a bullet (without base bleed).
Since the rocket motor is firing, it should be a bit less due to base bleed drag reduction, but it is also pulling AoA so that increases a bit of drag.
CxK is not directly analogue to Cd. It is a modifier that is used in conjunction with the caliber and possibly the length of the missile to find the drag.
Make it loft more and on more cases(lower the minimum angle for lofting, it is set at -7° lower it more and increase the up angle). The terrible lofting mechanics is what mainly sets it back. Velocity just makes it drop like a brick.
It easiest test to see if it right is just do a 110 Nautical Mile shot, set the F14 at 45k ft at Mach 1.5 against a target at 49kft at Mach 1.5. The Time of Flight of that shot was 160s(exactly the battery life limit). If it takes more then you know it has too much drag and/or it didn’t loft enough. If it takes less then it overperforms.
Its an easy test to do to test the validity of your model.
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