Was the AIM-54 even produced locally by Iran?
It’s probably closer the the AIM-54 was Reverse Engineered to aid with the development of a derivative model of the MIM-23 using the airframe as a surrogate to build into an Ersatz A2A variant that was compatible with the F-14 due to running low on stocks of the AIM-54 and lacking a doctrinal replacement.
Since the Iranians definitely had local production facilities for the HAWK and the layout of the missiles was similar. I doubt that it is quite a capable as the AIM-54, but the miniaturization and redesign of HAWK electronics sufficient to fit into the space available in the F-14 Airframe would be really interesting to see how it was accomplished.
As I said, they upgraded their MIM-23. It is now its’ own indigenous thing, using few original parts but still housed in a similar silhouette. The upgraded engine, electronics, etc may have been reused or adapted to the AIM-54 frame to ease production of the Fakour-90 but in no way would I say it’s just a copy. It’s domestically produced in Iran, using Iranian parts… they have lineage to the American stuff but that’s really all there is to it.
I just really don’t think it would be hard for any modern country to replicate the 1963 AIM-54A design and produce it domestically… surely it has upgrades of some sort.
A complete 1:1 exact replica is probably impossible due to particular production methodologies, having been superseded in the 60 years since production began.
A functional replica may be possible, but would require a good understand and significant effort to duplicate the analog sections digitally, as well as work around any specific design choices that were made for various reasons and where they can be superseded, especially when you eventually need to integrate back into existing systems. So either the scope balloons with needing to replicate many more systems or otherwise be carefully integrated, which takes time, money, and understanding and even then would probably still fail.
What would probably be most important would the test and verification sets and procedures lists for the AIM-54 / MIM-23 maintainer.
possibly but they almost certainly have not kept pace in terms of EW performance so, it’s a slight a relative backslide especially in comparison to their likely adversaries at this point being the USN itself, so would have a near complete understanding of it’s capabilities so would likely be hard countered by DECM for most adversarial systems which denies most of the benefits.
Though for example IQAF F-16’s would probably struggle considering they are relegated to Sparrows and export Sidewinders (?AIM-9P / -N / -S ?) so would be overmatched, even if they are Block-52’s the Iranians would have some idea of their capabilities due to the FMS procurement program Peace Zebra.
Regarding upgrades I’m thinking improved motor, higher performance seeker, etc. IRL the AIM-54A was heavily limited in range by the battery life of 160s so I’ve heard. (Not that it would be hitting maneuverable targets at those ranges though).
As difficult as it would be to reverse engineer, and then upgrade the AIM-54 integrating similar upgrades to their MIM-23 systems… they’ve had more than enough time to do so.
I would be shocked if they didn’t just copy+paste the basics (airframe, motor, nozzle, servos/hydraulics) and completely rework the internals. It would be absurd to try and reverse engineer an at the time ~40 year old missile. I doubt you could even find a place to begin to try manufacturing such old tech
Really they’d just need to figure out the datalink, but they have all the manuals for that so it probably wasn’t too hard.
With technology transfers from Russia I’m sure they are able to work something out. In any case, they have a Phoenix equivalent missile in domestic production for their F-14 fleet.
I see that also lists the roland being a 35g missile instead of 15/20
Would that be able to be added in a later patch?
After the missile changes in la royale the rolands really suffer
Some missiles that use combined plane in real life have no good proof to suggest they do it all the time, as such are limited to single plane in-game. I’ve been working to find evidence to improve some of these missiles such as Magic 2 and AIM-54. I hope that those are implemented in the next major or early next year.
The ancient Aim54 is long dead and gone and no longer in the mind of the Iranians.
Everything that could possibly be learned of the Aim-54 was done so a long time ago. Anything that could not be understood, would require the license to build obtaining the classified intellectual properties in manufacture and production processes of the missile.
Every technology the Iranians had learned from the Aim-54 that they were able to manufacture and produce themselves had already been observed and found in the first and only domestic, serial production missile that was literally designed to serve as the only replacement to the Aim54 and did so for many years and continued in research upgrade. That is the Sedjil missile.
The Self-Sufficiency Jihad Organization of the Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force did not develop Project Sedjil with the aim of producing another missile as sort of compliment to the priceless strategic value of the Aim-54 or some urgent jury rigging done on some Radom day of the war by Iranians specialist during an operation.
That primary program directive that the Self-Sufficiency division of the Iranian Air Force was to immediately initiate program to research, test and develop a standalone domestically produced replacement to the Aim54 as well as a requirement that the missile goes operational and in serial production with deliveries taking place before the wars end. A very difficult task.
Reason being Iran wisely concluded that an absolute loss of strategic capability was imminent and losing the vast wall of deterrent the F-14 had established over the loosely defended Persian Gulf keeping Iraqi operations down to a minimum was unacceptable.
Iran had zero experience in missile development whatsoever especially in replicating the technologies of what was the most advanced active long range homing missile in the world.
They were never going to be able to replicate the Aim54 EVER. it is too advanced. Even if they were. They would not be able to bring them to the war in time or produce large quantities.
Iran chose the MIM-23 Hawk missile as the most viable platform to begin the replacement of the Aim54. Being that its vastly cheaper, easier to develop upon. The MIM-23’s performance
and range was the closest thing they will ever achieve to the Aim54.
Iran’s biggest hurdle was to achieve synchronization with the AWG-9. Which at the time was the most powerful and advanced air intercept radar of the world. Engineers at Raytheon and Hughs believed it impossible. Iran proved them wrong.
They already had a domestically produced missile for years and it’s called the Sedjil. The Fakour 90 is the latest development of that.
Fakour 90 is a further development of the Sedjil.
They did not reproduce the aim54 in any capacity whatsoever, and I do not think you understand how it works in regard to reproducing captured technologically superior weapon systems of foreign adversaries. The countless hurdles one must go through in to take a missile with no licensed to build determine what each component is and what exactly is it made up and then attempt without a clue as to the specific and very classified manufacturing techniques as well as what specialized equipment needed.
There are countless intellectual properties and the many manufacturer techniques just to come up with material to make components on the Aim54 that were digitally designed, and laser cut to precision.
it is impossible to determine the exact manufacturing techniques of a complex weapon system and many materials it is made up of are not remotely available for serial production and heavily sanctioned as in the case of Iran.
The Sedjil is the first domestically produced replacement for the Aim54, the Fakour 90 is a development of that missile. End of story.
The only reason you see aim54 in the Fakour 90 is probably because that was the technologies they knew they can replicate but unable to because of previous sanctions. But the fact remains. The missile Iran developed and continued to develop and gain experience in missile design was from the original HAWK modification of the Iran/Iraq war. Those experiences and research from that missile has led to the Fakour 90.
It does seem that you truly comprehend how difficult it is for any country to replicate modern weapon systems even today. The vast number of classified manufacturing technique that go into the materials, the computer programs and specialized equipment that is designed and developed to produce very critical components.
Copying complex weapon systems and reproducing them on large scale is not a video game.
There are historical accounts of weapons systems that were captured and even had the entire intellectual properties to develop available and the country still could not replicate exactly to the letter the system. An aircraft in this case.
Because it does not matter how “modern” a country is. There is just not the material available or the expertise available to produce critically important components.
Yes,
If the 1963 Aim54 is given right now to the Russians, they would not be able to replicate the missile. Because the Soviet Union has fallen and many manufacturing capabilities do not belong to them and belonged to neighboring countries that used to be part of the Union. Russia is heavily sanctioned. Even if they had the manufacturing capabilities, they would fail to reproduce the missile and enter serial production.
Some “modern” countries today cannot even reproduce advanced weapon systems they owned and once produced themselves. Again perfect example, Russia cannot reproduce many of their own advanced weapon systems lost. Because they were produced in countries of the Soviet Union and those production capabilities remain there and belong to that country.
It does not matter how old the Aim54A is. That is video game talk. The Aim54 is from a moment in history where the wealthiest, most technologically advanced nation on earth put unlimited funds into research and development of weapon systems and highly still classified specialized manufacturing of them. Modern China or Russia combined in all their wisdom would not be able to reproduce the Aim54 to the letter without the intellectual properties and enter serial production without issue.
If the goal is to state as much fictitious or erroneous stuff as possible as to make any attempts at correcting it an inconceivably difficult task… you’ve accomplished that. Would be interesting to see any information from you backed with some source. The issue of discussing the Fakour-90 is that we are going off of practically nothing. We know next to nothing about it, it’s all conjecture. If you want to continue making the Phoenix out to be something a third world nation couldn’t produce in a few short years of research had they gotten their hands on one… then I guess that’s just your opinion lol. It’s been 60 years since the first XAIM-54A’s were produced. It was not that technologically challenging to produce even at the time… just costly.
I have no doubt on my mind that they had already made improvements to their Phoenix missiles, and surpassed it’s capabilities over a decade ago. The Sedgil itself being vastly superior to the MIM-23 we originally sent them. They are fully capable of … and have indeed overhauled their F-14s. They can replace any components as needed with domestic parts.
On a sidenote, Iran took a look at the T-90M Russia wanted to sell and opted to produce their own (superior) model in-house known as the Karrar. They’re not behind on production and technical know-how… I think mostly hampered by having to constantly import required resources through heavy sanctions.
Yes thank you for confirming your elementary understanding of development and manufacturing of advanced weapon systems as well as history with the “I cannot even reply.”
Now you pivot and want a source that says reproducing advanced technologies without being provided the intellectual properties for serial production is very hard.
You also require that I source all history of the Iranian/Iraq war that I took the time to study as attempt to downplay your lack of understanding.
Just admit you do not know everything about everything in a video game. Go and read up on history yourself. Do your own work.
You have not put much thought and effort into history and very basic design practices of weapon systems. Actually, you do not put much thought into anything really, even your WT nickname reflects that.
If I can lay out history and design practice of the cold war in my own words. Why are you incapable of doing it yourself? Because you have did not read the history and therefore incapable. Instead of just ever admitting you do not know something you always resort to demand I send you every link and source I spent hours reviewing have went over during my time when we studied this in the old forums.
You are absolutely detached from reality. This is admission of that.
How many missiles have you designed? How many of those missiles have you cleared for serial production?
The Fakour-90 is a design developed from the Sedjil. You do not develop missiles from scratch having no experience. They need an easier platform their engineers are capable building upon and able to mass produce.
They used the Aim54 and the knowledge they can gather along with the experience of the Tomcat and specifically chose an easier platform they can work with to replace it.
This is not rocket science kid and requires a source, picture drawn ans that I hold your hand and walk you through.
