What are they firing it at?
Usually small aerial targets for training.
First off, we know the AIM-54C had a “smokeless” motor:
Second “smokeless” doesnt ACTUALLY mean smokeless, its reduced smoke, or low visibility, its easier to just say smokeless and is relatively commonly referred to as such. This is a good diagram for said explanation:
Thirdly, even reduced smoke motors produce contrails at contrail altitudes, they’re just not as pronounced or visible. Here’s a “smokeless” AMRAAM launch at high alt for example:
This was all previously discussed way back when the 54C first came into a dev server and was forwarded to the devs:
but as usual, it has gone unfixed despite them LITERALLY just adding “smokeless” motors ingame
You can even tell the motor isnt producing thick smoke as its actually more translucent than opaque
Gotta stop saying smokeless, it’s “reduced smoke”.
I doubt that that is actually an AIM-9M. That channel has re-uploaded a Danish military video and the smoke trail looks far more consistent with what the official Danish Air Force channel label as AIM-9L firings. Come to mention it I can’t even find anything proving the Danish actually used the AIM-9M.
Compare that to an AIM-9X (which has a truly “smokeless” motor - and is similar to the AIM-9M):
Reduced smoke is not the same as “smokeless”. Compare the amount of smoke coming out the AIM-54C at altitude to the virtually invisible smoke coming out of the AIM-9X and ASRAAM when fired at altitude. I’d describe those two as being essentially “smokeless”, whereas the AIM-54C is just reduced smoke.
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AIM-9L received the reduced smoke motor as well, and as older motors met their shelf life they were replaced with the newer reduced smoke Mk36… Whichever “mod” that is I can’t recall at the moment.
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Right, so nomenclature discrepancy, the AIM-54C still produces MUCH more smoke than it should in-game.
Also worth noting Stepanovich was having productive discussion about the issues you’re heckling about and you disrupted the discussion… possibly even preventing some of this from getting fixed in the first place since they were unable to convince him of their reasoning / logic.
/Not off-topic but thanks for the flag
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Maybe, but it sounded like you thought the AIM-54C should be completely smokeless like the AIM-9M currently is in game.
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The 9M isn’t completely smokeless either, its smoke is low viz and low duration but it exists and is easier to see on dark backgrounds
The vid in question if you’re curious:
9M smoke code:
65D smoke code:
54C smoke code:
I have a question about multipath propagation and its relation to the missile trajectory angle.
In the left image, the missile is flying at the target from the front and same altitude. There will be a return that comes directly from the target and another return that is the target’s return reflected from the ground forming an image underground. The missile will then fly at the averaged return (point on the ground directly under the target).
In the right image, the missile is flying at the target from the front but from a much higher altitude. The image is now closer to the target and increases the chances of hitting the true target (given a sufficiently large angle from the ground).
Is my logic sound for the second image? Is this how it works in the game? Does the illuminating radar position matter here?
I have tried using this tactic to ensure a higher chance of killing targets skimming the surface, but the missile seems to still often land far ahead of the target. I don’t know if it is my perception of angles (maybe I thought the missile was much closer to the normal than I thought) or if it is not how it works IRL/in-game
Logic is sound and thats how you can score SARH hits against low flying targets, but you need to be almost directly on top. Basically airframe needs to find itself on path towards distorted lock point or at least close enough for proximity fuse to set off
Is there any such video of AIM-54C fired at low altitude then?
The question is whether you think the AIM-54C should have the exact same type of smoke as AIM-9M does in-game.
No, but it’s clearly not as smoky as previous models.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/955829235493273680/1154092677793583266/DuujBQKUUAE2v3C.jpg_large.jpg
Very limited angle, can’t see behind it. Is there any comparison to AIM-54A of similar angle?
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AIM-54A launch makes viewing of the exhaust flame difficult from sheer amount of opaque smoke.
I’ll have to give you that. The next question is if it should get the same smoke type as AIM-9M. The motor is thicker on the AIM-54 than AIM-9M*.
Reduced smoke is a term that doesn’t describe one exact propellant mix… it’s possible one has more or less smoke depending on conditions.
Also, reduced smoke propellants harm ISP by approx. 15% generally.