That’s right. also firepower and mobility. The T25 has neither and both are arguably worse than the tiger.
The T25 has a lot more armor than some 6.0-6.3 medium tanks.
It’s very effective hull down and has good gun depression, turret traverse and reverse speed.
The 90mm gun is quite effective, with both APCR and APHE.
Against a Tiger the T25 has the upper hand because the APHE can penetrate both the mantlet and the front, while having better gun handling.
It can even kill Tiger IIs with the production turret, where a Italian or Japanese Tiger doesn’t stand a chance.
So it’s simply more capable than 6.0 vehicles.
- The whole point of this is that its 6.3 and should be 6.0. Its not 6.0 right now.
2.At the BR it is right now the “more conservative with armor all the way around evenly” Is equivalent to no armor at all. The mantlet is somewhat similar to Panthers being able to block shots a small amount of the time randomly but not often.
My guy, have you even played the T25?
If Panthers =/= T25 than the T25 should go down to 6.0.
Glad you agree.
Quite a lot actually.
Almost every time someone talks trash about it I have to take it out and see for myself.
It’s not amazing but it’s just too good for 6.0 but then also not that great to 6.3.
Doesn’t help that one change in BR can complete switch whether you get full uptiers only partial or even downtiers.
Do you see the difference between:
„=„
And
„=/=„
?
Yes actualy
Panther =/= T25
bc panther is better.
very simple
And do you play the panther a lot too?
Not very often anymore.
But I rather play a M4A3 with a stabilizer, better RoF and better mobility.
The Panther is a one trick pony. Stay at range and have people struggle to pen you from the front.
Good luck with that strategy on 90% of WT maps that just arena matches inside a city where you constantly get shot in the side and movement is key, unless you’re in a heavy that can bounce shots left and right.
You have Germany on the enemy team and you know you’re going up agains slow vehicles that only pose a threat at range on an open field.
It’s easy to play around that by positioning yourself where you can use cover or engage them up close where armor is pretty meaningless.
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I wouldnt say its a one trick pony. In terms of the armored triangle (armor, firepower and mobility) Its above average in all three categories. (in war thunder at least where it actually works ; ) ) The T25 on the other hand has a turret armor equivalent the the Panthers but hull armor that instead of being almost invincible is worthless to most cannons at that BR. Mobility that is way worse. Its cannon that has worse pen for the round you will actually be using and a reload that is also worse. Literally the only thing that the T25 is better at than the panther or is good at at all is its reverse speed making it an actual one trick pony. For the same BR that would be bad but for being .3 BR higher is actually absurd!
Nah, mobility is not that great.
It’s pretty much below average (sure the T25 is far from a mobility beast) but it also has that god awful reverse speed that the Comet and Challanger at least can make up with very good acceleration and top speed.
Of course the gun is pretty good but which tank really has a bad gun?
85mm deals more damage
76mm is stabilized and has better RoF
17pdr gets APDS and better RoF
90mm is simply better
So the gun can hardly be considered amazing, unless you want to shoot at T-34s and Sherman’s from 1.5km, which never happens.
So the best part is obviously the frontal armor but armor generally doesn’t get you kills.
So in terms of actively seeking out targets, the Panther is pretty much average at best.
Like the T25, it’s best played defensively but the night and day reverse speed difference means it’s very difficult to effectively maneuver in close quarters, where positioning is key to get a line of sight to a target.
No, mobility is really good all thing considered. It may not have crazy mobility like the T34 but its way better than any American tanks at that BR besides light tanks. As for the gun It may do less damage than normal but It makes up for it with great pen. As for the 90mm, how on earth can you consider it better in every way? Its worse in every way except for APDS which is almost never used and some damage, its worse in literally every other way!
What American tanks?
The M36 and M4A3 have better mobility at even lower BR.
M4/T26 and M36B2 are probably around as mobile.
I feel like your living in 2022 because Panthers had their mobility nerfed and 90mm cannons all had their velocity buffed.
The 90mm is simply better in terms of penetration and damage with APHE, while APCR boost very high flat pen and good damage that’s actually quite useful to taking out both German heavies or light and medium tanks.
2 Likes
I think you should look at the statistics.
Here are just a few. The panther has almost the exact same P/W as the M4/T26 and M36B2 but with a much higher top speed. The Panthers APHE also has 7 more mm of pen than the 90 mils.
I didn’t believe it either until I looked it up this morning only further reinforces my belief that the T25 should go down .3 BR if not .6 with the M4T26, M4A3 76, and M4A2 76 going down .3 BR as well.
Im like 6.3 in US ground, should I just cut my loss’ now and stop? Every tank Im about to unlock you are saying is over BR’d lol
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Look again.
The higher penetration is completely negligible and after 500m the 90mm APHE even has more.
A larger caliber also means more slope armor penetration, lower chance of ricochets and of course more damage.
In war thunder you rarely have engagements past 500m. Also at that BR for the 90mil the slightly higher size isn’t going to make much of a difference. If the armor is sloped you will either pen it anyway or it wasn’t going to pen in the first place.
lets go over what we have
Panther gun: slightly better pen at normal engagement distances and better reload rate.
90mil: slightly better pen at range, slightly better angle performance, and better damage.
As we can see it is in no way “better in every way”
I actually have really good input on this. I wish someone had told me this when I got into rank 4.
Completely ignore the medium tank tree, its completely ass until the M46 but that’s 2-3 tanks back. The TD tree is okay but it takes a LOT of work to master as all 3 have unique and difficult playstyles. The light tank tree is not bad but I personally prefer the M18 as its better speed makes it better at flanking, scouting, and point capturing. The heavy tank tree is where you want to go. They may have slightly less mobility than what your used to but the T26E5, T26E1-1, and T34 are some of the funest tanks I have played!
1 Like
The Panthers few mm (5mm at 100m) of penetration make no difference.
What also makes no difference is the having a 0.1s faster reload.
We’re talking differences of merely 1-3%.
So the 90mm has the same pen but more damage and 90mm APCR that can penetrate targets that the 75mm can’t pen.
Which makes the 90mm a straight upgrade.