i guess I should specify unique & iconic vehicles. i guess there is lancaster but that isnt a fighter tbf.
even as a premium it doesnt fit. i mean, someone grinding the US tt with a spitfire just doesnt make sense
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Ok, if that’s your opinion, then fine.
The P-36 is Rank II at best. It’s completely useless for warbond tasks that require Rank III or higher. The Spitfire Mk Vc/trop could perfectly fill that gap as a Rank III dogfighter for the US tree. At least it would serve a practical purpose this way. It’s up to Gaijin how they want to make it a premium or tech-tree aircraft.
I’ve played minor nations extensively, so I get the concerns. But adding these American Spitfires would give US players something fresh, a proper dogfighting option instead of yet another energy fighter. In my humble opinion, in the current air RB meta, dedicated dogfighters are meta and just as dangerous (if not more than) BnZ planes, yet the US tree barely has any. This would balance things out.
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I agree about the F4U-4, but the F4U-4B sits at 5.7 BR. That’s solidly mid-tier in my book, not low-tier. The Spitfire Mk Vc/trop just isn’t in the same league performance-wise as the F4U-4B.
Not if its a premium aircraft, it doesn’t. If you have to pay for it, it doesn’t fill a gap nor have a purpose. And, again, you are doggedly insistent on a nonexistent problem. The US has plenty of fun aircraft that can be used to grind out events at tier 3 and above, and if you insist on including premium aircraft, we already have the infamous XP-40 and XP-55 at the very tier, both of which are insanely good aircraft.
First of all, copy paste is the antithesis of ‘fresh’. It’s regurgitating content that, simultaneously, lessens the value of other trees. Secondly, hard disagree. If ‘dedicated dogfighters’ are the ‘meta’, it’s because the average player is incapable of comprehending BnZ and will turn fight a Zero in a B-17 if given the chance.
Now, if you actually want to freshen up the US techtree, it would be better to implement all of the cool prototypes not yet seen ingame. Stuff like the Flying Chainsaw, Black Bullet, Airacuda, TBD Interstate, Moonbat, P-59B, XB-42, XB-19, XP-75, and so on. All unique, really cool aircraft that would be a ton of fun to fly and see ingame.
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It’s the XP-50, not the XP-40, but I get your point.
I completely disagree. Even if it’s “copy-paste,” this aircraft offers a totally different playstyle compared to most American props; that alone makes it feel fresh from a gameplay perspective.
You clearly recognize the current meta issues, and this Spitfire would be perfect for new and average players. The Big 3 nations, the US being one of them, are formed by a large percentage of inexperienced players, and having a newbie-friendly dogfighter would help them learn. Veterans would benefit too, since they already know how to exploit the Spitfire’s strengths and weaknesses. I don’t see the point in continuing this argument, as you are insisting it’s “copy-paste” and don’t want to see its addition to the game. That’s fine with me, as there are other potential candidates to fill this role.
Indeed, those are the aircraft and countless other vehicles I already suggested as an effort to spice up the US aviation tree. Rest assured, the suggestion list doesn’t have many “copy-paste” aircraft, and American Spitfires make up just a tiny fraction of these suggestions.
To those who read this, if you genuinely care about improving US aviation tree, I’d suggest reviewing my other suggestions. I am continuing to suggest more for the tech tree.
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Or you could, I don’t know, play tech trees other than the US. I mean, crazy I know.
Especially when most players play RB when it comes to air, so they only have one life anyway, meaning there isn’t anything gained for buying these foreign aircraft.
I really don’t understand these arguments centering on ‘its gameplay would be unique to the tree’, when maintaining the uniqueness of trees is something we should do, which copy paste slop like this actively harms. If you want the British experience, you play Britain. You want the American experience, play America.
First of all, Veterans wouldn’t benefit, and are most likely to be peeved over more copy paste. If they want to play British aircraft, Spitfire included, they would start, or already have, grinded down the British TT.
Noobies who want to play US are exactly the kind of people you don’t want buying this aircraft. All it would do is encourage them to turn fight everything they see, which is not something you want to teach US players as there aren’t many turn fighters in the tree. Good aircraft for US noobies teach them the way of Boom n Zoom, not the heresy that is turn fighting.
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Tbf US fighters can turnfight, just not sustain it indefinitely. As long as you got speed over 450-500 km/h, most u.s aircraft become very nimble and can gain position in the initial turn. The Hellcat is brought up as foolishly turnfighting, but it can - in the right hands - gain position in a lead turn and then burn altitude to stay on someone’s six. P-51 cannonstang is similar - if you can get the initial position with an aggressive lead turn, it’s quite difficult to escape. You just want to do it at high altitude so you can get the speed back quickly (P-51-D-5 vs Bf109K4 - the P-51-D-5 can win the descending spiral if the Bf109 tries to dive away rather than climb) and ditch the fight after 2 turns to reset.
Never take the hellcat into a descending spiral, it will win.
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True, but when a new players first instinct is to enter into a turn fight, it’s best to break them of that instinct first so that Boom N Zoom becomes their default method of attack, and then they can learn when to turn fight.
At least if they intend to play American planes, anyway.
Edit: Thanks for the video, got a new tuber to binge
That’s your subjective opinion, and I fundamentally disagree with your purist approach to tech trees. At the end of the day, the American Spitfire is a simple, valid addition to the US tree. Calling it “copy-paste slop” that actively harms the game is absurd.
Also, let’s not forget Air Arcade is still one of the most popular modes, so players would find this Spitfire a valuable addition to their 3.7 lineup. Judging its value purely through an Air RB lens is way too narrow-minded.
I disagree. As a veteran player since 2013 who had grinded every tech tree, I know how useful this would be. My Italian Spitfire Mk Vb/trop, for instance, has been incredibly effective for grinding Battle Pass tasks and other Battle Pass or event vehicle challenges, so the American version would perform just as well. Somebody will appreciate its addition and its benefits, and I am sure about that.
Why does it matter to you who flies this beginner-friendly Rank 3 aircraft? Newbie players will quickly learn this Spitfire’s strengths and weaknesses. Turnfighting isn’t its only use, and they’ll have to master energy management too. If it gets caught in a furball with no energy, it’s dead meat. That’s a fundamental skill that applies to all US props. If some players struggle even with this aircraft or other US prop, that’s their responsibility to fix their skill issues through trial and error methods or by seeking advice from experienced players.
Even a Spitfire can Boom and Zoom if they know what they are doing. I’ve done it myself. Just because it’s not its strong primary role doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
Call turnfighting “heresy” all you want, but being effective in a Spitfire requires more than just turning. I strongly dislike seeing someone like you gatekeeping this Spitfire just because they are “noobs.”
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Since you are focusing on 3.7.
Unlocking BR 4.0 planes does not take a long time. Even with casual play of only playing 2 hours friday, saturday and friday each - you only need about a week to reach 4.0 aircraft. First time? It will take a hot minute as you’re learning how to play but second, third and fourth? It’s gonna be a breeze.
This is why, when I give advice for either ARB or ASB, I often advise getting a BR 4.0 USSR/US/GB/GER/IT/JAP or closest aircraft after learning and familiarizing yourself with the controls and getting comfortable and then playing each nation for a week. It makes you a better player for a lot of reasons.
This is one of the big strengths of 3.0-4.0 BR bracket - are you dying repeatedly to a plane that makes you claim it’s broken? Go and fly it. It’s quick and easy to unlock and spade. Spend a week or two flying nothing but that plane you hate. Either you realize it’s not OP and it’s skill issue, or you at least learn where it fails and learn how to beat it*.
*This doesn’t work with exclusive premium
It takes an already bad problem and makes it worse for no real benefit. If it was a british premium, it’d open the way to a cheap and low-bracket premium plane for making SL in, given the only rank 3 british premium that’s not an american aircraft is marketplace only.
If I was flying britain, I don’t want to be forced to fly america just to have a BR 3.0-4.0 bracket spitfire with decent SL income (only one that exists is marketplace only). I already hate having to fly britain for my mustang Mk Ia. Currently there’s no significant difference since GB/US are on the same side always, but I hope that we can expand the matchmaker to involve alt history scenarios like GER/US/IT vs GB/USSR and things like that for unique match-ups and opportunities for teamwork.
Because I hate that I can’t buy a premium yak-3 because the only way for me to do that is to fly france, which might lead to me flying yak 3 vs yak 3s and I don’t want that.
Because I hate that I can’t buy a premium bf109F4 because the only way for me to do that is to fly america, which will always lead to me flying against bf109s.
Surely you can see the issue.
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?? Okay, but my point was that the BR 3.7 American Spitfire could work in a 3.7 lineup for air arcade battles, ground realistic battles (this Spitfire can carry a small bomb load), and even naval battles. Those are game modes where they can be respawned more than once with the use of backups. I’m saying this Spitfire can be a versatile option in those game modes, so it’s not just for Air RB or Sim.
Ok - there are plenty of great suggestions for low-tier British domestic fighters that’d make perfect premiums. You should check those out and throw your support behind them instead.
About the matchmaker: the teams in Air RBs have been mixed for ages. US teams can already end up with Germany or Germany/Italy against USSR/UK/etc. It’s not always like that, but it happens. We’re getting off-topic here though. Maybe take that discussion somewhere else.
I do agree with your concern, though. Sadly, the best we can do is support other nations’ aircraft suggestions to get Gaijin’s attention. They’re the ones who decide what gets added in the end.
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In SB US/GB are always on the same side. Since this suggestion would negatively affect sim, it is on topic.
Has back-ups, and is negatively affected by more IFF issues. Not an issue presently, but can and will be once we hopefully get more lobby types.
We should advocate for each nation only flying its domestic aircraft with historical lend-lease and captured curiousities being recognized through unique camoflagues that are only usable either in marker-indicated modes or when the parties are on the same side in a markerless lobby.
We should also strive to implement silver lion talismans and submit it as suggestion until suggestion moderators finally stop wordlessly deleting such. Silver lion talismans would open up any and all TT aircraft to be used to make SL and remove the absurdity above described (Want a premium bf109F4? Fly america, who is always an enemy of germany!)
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Gotta love British main hypocrisy when US gets suggested a British vehicle they used, it’s like a warcrime has been comitted, yet they advocate for Australian-owned US-made aircraft like the A-4 and F-18 to be in their tree because reasons??
Anyways, I’ll agree that this game needs no more copy paste so a -1, unless they keep shoving unnecessary US vehicle in the British tree (like F-111C) then of course this should be added to the US
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I don’t want any domestic aircraft in foreign tech trees.
I hate that to fly premium razorback mustangs, I must fly britain. I hate that premium hellcats are british. I hate that premium corsair at 3.0-5.7 is british. I fly all of US/GER/IT/JAP/GB/USSR, but if I’m flying X nation I want to fly its aircraft not something foreign that might end up on the enemy side as well.
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How exactly does this negatively impact sim battles? I’m not a dedicated sim player myself, but you claim US/GB are always on the same side - so where’s the IFF issue unless we’re talking about Italian or captured Spitfires on other team?
That said, there are potential solutions to address this problem if it exists. This really deserves its own separate discussion thread.
Ideally, Gaijin should’ve handled this better from the start, but now it’s too late to change things. You can’t just remove all aircraft that fit this criteria from tech trees - that would be unfair, and I am sure you’ll find most suggestion creators and supporters strongly disagree with that approach.
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I’ll be frank, this is bad take 101. War Thunder is a game that advertises itself is “realistic”, this includes all historical vehicle used by the nation(they are national tech-trees not industry) in question(both domestic and foreign). If you want a purist game War Gaming is that way.
Well I’m aware your looking only at sim, it’s not the only thing in the world(and needs a rework from the ground up in the first place). Both Arcade with its no nations match maker, and realistic that can be mixed in the first place.
I like making historical or even semi-historical line-ups, and having vehicle used by regiments or squadrons historically be nothing more think skins(that would cost GE) would absolutely suck.
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Just because a problem exists does not mean we should make it worse. if we make it worse, it means suggestions for alt-history (What if U.S joined axis?) lobbies become bogged down by impossibility of IFF.
There’s nothing limiting people from playing all nations at prop tiers. They’re fast to grind and unlock unlike jets, so keeping things pure and sensible has no drawbacks while the current model brings negative consequences for no benefit.
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Okay, but I’d argue captured vehicles create way bigger issues than historical lend-lease aircraft—at least when it’s Allies vs. Axis. But we’re getting off-topic here. You’re bringing sim battles into a discussion about historical Allied reverse lend-lease, so let’s just agree to disagree.
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Then, at best, so is your stance about it being a valid addition to the game ‘subjective’. That goes both ways, you know.
I also find the prospect of not understanding the position of copy paste actively harming the game absurd. It actively makes both trees less unique, diluting the US tree with a foreign design when it isn’t needed, and gives less reason to try the British tech tree. It’s one thing if this is done to fill a gap -an actual gap, mind you, not ‘play style’ gaps in a thick tree that already has plenty of good vehicles as it stands, with many more possible additions-, and another to copy paste a redundant premium into an already stuffed tree.
As for AB, as said before, the US already has a ton of really good aircraft at the tier, and with the buffs to performance aircraft get across the board, any supposed ‘need’ for a copy paste spitfire is lessened.
You actually illustrated one of my issues with premium copy paste. Instead of grinding out the Italian tree with Italian aircraft, you did so with a British aircraft. Because of the bonuses allotted to premiums, once you acquire such an aircraft, you lose any objective reason to play Italian aircraft, which not only makes the point of grinding out the tree -to use Italian aircraft in this case- somewhat redundant, but also makes it so that you aren’t actually prepared to use the nation’s aircraft in question. While Italy has good turn fighters, so the Spitfire isn’t as bad there, in other trees, like the US, where you aren’t really supposed to turnfight with their aircraft, calculated maneuvers aside? Actively detrimental as it’s teaching you the wrong lessons for the tree.
Because the Spitfire is a good turn fighter. While there are situations where US aircraft can outperform it in a turnfight, such situations require set up to do. This is an issue because the first instincts of new players is to enter into turnfights, regardless of what aircraft they are actually flying. Instead of discouraging those instincts, the Spitfire encourages it, which is an issue when much of the tree, especially the iconic aircraft people will be beelining for, play very differently to what you would expect of a Spitfire. Good newbie aircraft teach new players how to play the nation’s aircraft, which is something the Spit does not do and actively encourages behaviors and habits that run counter to what you should do with the vast majority of US aircraft.
Not in this specific case, but it holds true for just about every other copy paste vehicle of its kind. You are also assuming that Britain and US will always be on the same team in SB, which can’t be guaranteed. Alternate History SB matches are far from an outlandish possibility.
While I agree to an extent, simply saying Go play Other Tank/Plane game isn’t a good counter, especially when the only things they share is that they use military vehicles. Personally believe that copy paste should only be done when either absolutely necessary or if it, somehow, supports an actual cause or museum. In this case, it is neither necessary, nor does it help anyone outside of lining Gaijin’s pockets.
Not really. How you crack the egg is different, but the end result is the same. Just look at Italian ground where they have both Panzers and Shermans. All of the Axis nations flipped to the Allies post war, and frequently made use of American and Soviet kit as the US and USSR had so much surplus and wanted to prop up their new allies. It’s better in the sense that they actually used it, but, as WT is performance based and doesn’t care much for era, the end result is the same.
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F-15IDN suggestion when lol