So that is what you are asking for? That would make the flight model even worse.
Learn to read.
Playing against the Su-27 is incredibly easy in SB due to the fact that it’s flight model sucks due to no energy retention.
Learn to read.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
Energy retention? You don’t know how to manage alpha?
I have been talking about pulling Max AoA at a specific subsonic speed at which you sure as hell barely find yourself in sim nor will you have any issue whatsoever unless you are panicking and pulling as hard as you can aft on the stick in a dogfight.
How are you having trouble with literally the best airframe in game at speed recovery? I can rate upwards and in su27 and pull a constant 9Gs and stay near Mach.
You need GJ to hold your hand and manage your speed for you? Your like those players that want more instructor limitations to help them play. Go back to the Mig29 if you want to fly with artificial training wheels to regulate your alpha and help you maintain your speed.
Or perhaps you need to examine other aircraft that have an ungodly speed retention in sim?
Give me something worth reading next time. Because it appears your experience and opinion in the Su27 is based purely out of an inability to regulate your alpha playing sim.
I play Air RB in both full real controls and mouse aim where everyone knows where everyone is. So what?
That’s a bit erroneous since they also consider it a functioning plane and a solution to any problems other than “too much money” and “too many living pilots”
But on a more serious matter, this is conflating fact with doctrine. Any nation is perfectly welcome to design a weapon that has no practical value.
There exists no purely factual “correct” design, only a design informed by doctrine priorities, requested capabilities, available technologies, resources, budgets etc.
F-35 as an example was AFAIK essentially designed to do a long list of tasks on the cheap, instead it is inanely expensive and still has like 900 unsolved issues after 2 decades of production and improvement. The kinds of issues that render it effectively crippled and failing to meet its design objectives (required availability rates etc.)
Now AFAIK Ziggy’s main point here is that the Su-27 flight model has issues if it isn’t performing as advertised. Asking “What’s the point of doing that?” is ignoring the core of why it’s brought up.
A known maneuver, contingent on the specifics of the aerodynamic design, should be acheived within documented parameters, otherwise the flight model is wrong and requires correction.
It is quibbling to address points other than this.
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I do appreciate that, Trista.
Yup, that covers it. I would just like to generate interest in this cool jet and have a discussion on a very specific speed range at initiating extreme high angles of attack. As far as I can tell one specific maneuver that is associated directly with the aircraft is no longer able to be properly performed in WT.
An iconic maneuver that goes hand in hand with the aircraft itself. It’s so iconic in the Flanker Gaijin literally advertised the aircraft performing it in the trailer.
I simply want to examine the current state of the aircraft. Perhaps I am doing something wrong flying it, perhaps GJ has invertedly modelled it out unaware in attempt to balance it out or make it “easier” for players to fly. I do not know. What I do know is the maneuver is no longer possible without stalling the aircraft into a dive to regain energy.
Instead of examining my concerns or recording footage of their cobra maneuvers as I urged, dudes rather look into my player stats and declare supermaneuvrability is a gimmick and western doctrine says it’s useless anyway when clearly it’s not in 5th gen air superiority fighters.
Gonna go out on a limb and assume that no source has been posted from that side of the argument and would explain why everyone is refuting incredulous statements for the last 50+ comments again. This is a common theme and detracts from actually fixing the flight model… comparing in-game to real life generally requires that we look at in-game performance and have some data to compare it with.
Umm… every source that has been brought before me has been easily diffused…
One guy brought up NASA flight regimes of transonic aircraft, Airliners…
Another one brought up allowable AoA for one of the heaviest flanker variants operating at maximum operational loading and gross weight…
Then they get mad at me for pointing that out.
The only person who has brought up sound sources and taught me anything on this particular subject so far has been @BBCRF and reminding me of the pitch damper at high speeds.
You in particular think calculating instant turn rate will solve it as if it has anything to do with the science of performing high angles of attack beyond what is possible with traditional aerodynamic techniques. The cobra maneuver has nothing to do with turn rate.
My FM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLzdAFaSP2A
Yes, it is not perfect yet and there is a lot of work
Sorry, but dynamic deceleration tactics are not used at high speeds and are not a proven advantage in BVR and the USSR did not practice these maneuvers.
You asked about the Su 27 materials.
Probably the best book on the Su 27 , is also available in English. I have the Russian one in PDF if you want it.
Su 27 fighter beginning of the story by ildar bedretdinov et al.
You should also get this book:
I also have it in PDF and in English, I can send it to you.
The only technical articles I have are about the Su 27.
SAE Technical paper
Analysis of Su-27 flight demonstration
at the 1989 Paris Air Show
Andrew M. Skow
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What’s “high speed” in your mind?
Do you know how PD radars work?
Do you know what a closure rate is?
Do you know what radar defeating techniques are in combat aviation other than notching?
Do you know what notching is and why it is effective at defeating tracking radar?
Yeah, sure send it to me and I can dissect it like the maximum operational loading and gross weight performance you sent earlier and assumed it applied to all flankers as a whole regardless of internal weight and operational loading.
Thanks.
Really? That’s all you have??? That makes perfect sense.
My guy has one technical paper and an outside analysis of the Su27 observed at an airshow.
Watch out boys. This isn’t any random open source found on the web. It’s from the Paris Airshow of 1989.
He is positive he probably has the best book out there on the Su27 in his very possession as well.
Yes, please bless me with this knowledge, good sir.
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This is probably a reprint of this book.
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Sorry, but you’re looking for something that’s never been more than an advertising slogan. Don’t take this the wrong way.
Well, I certainly trust your opinion.
is it the best source on the su27 out there as he is claiming?
If this is a reissue, then yes the source is good, but not the best. I will not name the best one
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The price is pretty high, but I haven’t seen a better source of information on the Su 27. I’d like it on paper myself.
The best is probably already the manual for the Su 27. If you think the best source about the Su 27 in terms of history, can you send me a tip in messages ?
You do not know what a slogan is. Are you saying the aircraft never could perform the cobra, or extreme angles of attack?
Or supermaneuvrability is just an advertising slogan? Why can’t you answer any of my questions in regard to radars or radar defeating techniques but simply post a cover of an open source commercially published book as if that is the authority without any backing to your claim?
You cannot explain anything in your own words at least?
We already have operational manuals. But those are not behind the door’s numbers. You understand there are performances not listed in open-source garbage you bought on Amazon?
From the point of view of history, yes, this is one of the best sources. But from the point of view of aerodynamic characteristics, not very
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The first dynamic exits to ultra-large angles of attack were performed by Igor Volkov on Su-27 No.09-06 (T10-30) on September 29, 1987 during tests at large angles of attack.
Further research in this area was carried out under a special program in April-August 1989 by test pilots Igor Volkov and Leonid Lobasov. Dynamic exits to ultra-high angles of attack (Cobra) were carried out in the altitude range from 11 to 1 km at instrument speeds of 300-450 km / h from horizontal flight, climb and descent modes, as well as turns with a roll of up to 80 degrees
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Yes, and it is no longer able to be done in full real without loss of lift in which the nose will pitch down in effort to recover.
Performing it any faster will cause the aircraft to climb instead and then pitch up when airspeed has decreased.
This issue was not present at release. Only after last FM update.