oh, you are breaking my heart. You seemed so promising at first.
Well, in his defense every single Su27 that has ever been produced with a serial number was designed for combat in mind.
Also, please do keep in mind he may mean something more than it appears as it is translated to you or I.
I don’t mean to say that he is saying anything untrue.
I just want to clarify that we likely can’t confirm if a plane has been modified or reinforced for such an event. We don’t even know the weights of the plane while they perform so they might be stripped of some weight before the show and added back later.
I am not saying that that’s the case or that this is even likely, but we shouldn’t take those videos as proof since we don’t know the configuration and changes made to the planes to allow those maneuvers.
I haven’t spent much time diving into these reports as of late, and likely won’t. Will be quite occupied with other things…
I would love to see the discrepancies reported, though. Gaijin will certainly implement changes if you can show there is an error in the known data.
I’m 90% sure the Russian Airforce on television explains that they do airshows for combat aircraft squadrons with unmodified combat aircraft. I’ve never heard of them being specially modified specifically for airshows…
What is the discussion?
I can’t see anything.The video does not show the speed of the aircraft.
The Su-33 is a combat aircraft. The test ones were from the serial ones
The speeds shows by the vapor forming around the wings. Your videos have the planes show little to no vapor so the speed is pretty slow.
Again, not trying to go against you. Just adding that you can never be 100% sure from videos since for most of them we do not 100% know the state of the aircraft.
How would you know? Honest question.
How would you know that they haven’t been reinforced? How much fuel do they carry, has equipment been removed to make them lighter?
How can you personally know that hasn’t been done.
That’s what I am trying to say. You can’t be sure about the state the plane is in. Unless you are the mechanic that worked on that specific plane before the show.
I cannot find videos of the aircraft performing a cobra with substantial vapor. He and you both seem to agree it’s definitely a lower speed than I believe or would like.
I am the one that believes it is higher but have not found proof of it yet. I believe it’s around 600-700km like they had previously which allows for the aircraft to maintain altitude and course coming out of the maneuver. There is no recovery process when coming out of performing the cobra other than regaining speed after the massive deceleration.
There is flanker footage of it being able to pull above 60 degree alpha even close to 90 in other maneuvers and massive amounts of vapor are displaced. However, in game all substantial alpha is capped at 800km and the flanker just pitches up and climbs even at clean and min fuel.
I would like to find if this is realistic or a
Simple artificial limitation on the flanker for gameplay purposes.
Because I participated there
You flew the plane? In that case I am obviously inclined to agree with the plane in that video being unmodified. Doesn’t necessarily mean that none ever were.
I find video evidence like this very hard to use as a good source since there can be too many variables we don’t know. Even the cameras own movement makes the maneuver look very different at times.
Thank you for the discussion though. o7
I’m not a pilot, but an engineer, and I don’t have to fly to know about an airplane.
I didn’t mean to say you had to fly to know it.
I meant that you need to check every single plane to know it’s status.
You can’t tell the amount of fuel, equipment or changes made from a video.
As an engineer you certainly can tell for the plane you check, I believe you.
If we are talking about the MAKS Airshow. That’s where mostly experimental machines are used, i.e. pre-production ones. Yes, radar can be removed from them.However, an equivalent is installed instead. There are no specially reinforced aircraft for the airshow
Serial machines can also be used
Do you have flanker documentaries to recommend. I want to learn more and more about this amazing jet.
You are taking out of your ass. ‘Super maneuverability’ is not a requirement for 5th generation fighters, namely the most prolific ->F-35
It also is likely not going to be incorporated on 6th generation platforms because it is a stupid marketing gimmick that only helps in minute amounts of flight regimes anymore.
It also serves no purpose in BVR combat or defeating radar guidance. Congratulations you have made yourself slow and helpless while barely defeating 1 missile, now the other 3-5 are going to have an even easier time hitting you and you have no response because you have trashed any useful kinematics you could give your missile launch. An F-pole does the same thing for defeating missiles and doesn’t throw away any capacity to respond.
So…wait…are you complaining that you gain a miniscule amount of altitude when doing a cobra / psuedo-cobra at around 800km/h?
Because I was playing with the plane and it can pull high AoA in manual controls and it’s not hard to recover from.
Please pay attention I specifically said 5th generation air superiority/ air dominance fighters.
The F-35 is neither. It’s a multi role platform. I find this quite funny how angered you are about it when you are the one who actually does not have a clue.
Everyone knew I was talking about 5th generation air superiority fighters. Except you.
Ok, and how long have you been flying fighter jets? You graduate top gun or fighter weapons school? Why are you so hurt about this? Be mad at the soviets for developing the tactics. Be mad at the Americans, the Chinese and the Russians for making it a REQUIREMENT for 5th generation AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTERS.
The US considers the F-35 an ASF, as do a majority of the countries who purchased it.
Yet it likely won’t be there in 6th generation platforms… Strange
US F-35 pilots, pilots from all over the world say otherwise. Would you like footage of Lockheed test pilots and active-duty F-35 pilots discussing its role and specifically calling it a multirole fighter? That air dominance of the 5th generation is assigned to the F-22? Analyst from the pentagon, Russia and China declare its a multirole fighter. It has a weaker RCS with RAM coating that is of cheaper quality that degrades at high Mach numbers, that is why it’s capped at pathetic top speed of 1.6. It has no ability to outrun any Russian fighter nor is it designed to defeat 4th generation fighters in a dogfight. It cannot perform supermaneuverable techniques. It is nothing more than the 5th generation pick-up truck. A multi-mission workhorse fighter.
An amazing technologically advanced aircraft, but Air Dominance is not its specialty and that why is why it lacks the air superiority performance.
China and Russia are now developing their own cheaper work horse multirole stealth fighters too. both will have less air-to-air capability than the J-20 and Su57. Why? because they will be multirole fighters just like the F-35.
What?? That 6th generation fighters will not have the ability to perform maneuvers not possible with traditional aerodynamic techniques??? AKA supermaneuvrability?
Think again junior, 6th generation fighters will be a tailless delta pattern with insane thrust to weight and… thrust vectoring. They will by highly maneuverable aircraft. Because performance is critical in offensive and defensive purposes such as radar defeating techniques and of course dogfighting.
Why are you so bothered that I want to perform the cobra properly in full real? Can you explain that? Can you explain why you are so bothered about someone discussing a small deviation from realism in full real controls in regards to the su27 when the F-16 can do ungodly things in both full real and with instructor? It’s really weird to be so turnt up about a guy wanting to enjoy his Flanker’s aerobatic maneuvers in full real.
I don’t care whether you think it’s useless in gameplay or it’s not what they taught you guys when you attended the Top Gun academy.
Let’s just say I want to fly it privately as the jet was known to fly and make videos of it. How about this, I would like it to be as realistic as possible in full real for custom pilotage gameplay. Cool?
All I want to do is stimulate interest and research into the su27 and examine the current model in detail and discuss that with like minded individuals.
Vapors can appear on a plane that is hardly moving… the speed has nothing to do with this… only atmospheric conditions.
Even so, it fits the bill. It is one of very few fighters designed to be able to control itself beyond wing stall and airflow separation. 6th gens won’t be maneuverable (for the most part) mainly because it is a feature that doesn’t benefit their design, task, or purpose.
This is spot on.
Someone perpetuating the idea that the F-35 isn’t an ASF? lol!