People are saying something about todays dev-server change to the SU30 absolutely ruined it’s flight-model at AoA.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
Well the su30sm rn doesn’t pull more than 11gs above mach 1 with min fuel and clean config, at low speeds idk, it feels kinda the same but I don’t have wtrti to test it rn, at least the tvc feels better
recent datamines for the su30sm:
2.44.0.31 → 2.44.0.36 Part 1
2.44.0.31 → 2.44.0.36 Part 2
it is about low speed with full real controls
Well normal performance sure its worst. But TVC system should give it a edge. And R-77-1 its a little better than R-77. 14.0 material? idk.
Hope these change help with the Yaw problem.
you might think so…
but in a 1v1 dogfight it only makes you bleed all your speed which you dont want at all
that dosent help you in a guns only fight
Su30sm Will not be that bad, even more now that they corrected its oswald coeff… without TVC i guess it would be be slightly worse than the su-33 for wvr, but considering it has TVC it’ll be 100% very competitive while dogfighting.
But for bvr it’ll be by far the best russian jet, it’ll fit the meta pretty well.
You overestimate the use of TVC tbh. It’s quite risky to use it at all
Not saying it’ll be the best but definitely not bad as ppl are saying “oh it’ll lose to a phantom, oh it’s worse than a mig21 frfr” like cmon dude, squishface duel video proved that it can at least give some headache in a dogfight if you use it well…
Worth pointing out, the dude that was flying the SU30 dueling squish claimed today that those sorta gunshots are pretty much impossible to achieve now after today’s FM nerf. Said something about TVC being impossible to control, and it’s more unstable under AoA.
I think SU30 will still be a good jet for sure, but it’s a shame about the FM if it is as bad as it sounds. I’d definitely take it over a Phantom lol
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One duel doesn’t ‘prove’ anything. Compared to the Su-27SM the Su-30SM is handedly the worst dogfighter . The Su-30SM pulls slightly harder at slightly faster speeds but loses the Su-27SM’s competitive sustained rate, energy retention, top speed, and acceleration. It is valid to point out that this is a significant decrease in BFM capability going from 13.7-14.0 in the same line.
I am excited to see how the changes to TVC will shift the needle there. But I don’t get why people are pretending that the Su-30SM has an acceptable flight model for this BR. It just doesn’t. You rip out everything that makes the Flanker a scary, versatile aggressor in order to double down on the high AoA one circle. Only to still lose this fight to every delta canard or well flown Eagle / Hornet in the sky. Jets that will either pull more AoA at the same speeds or will sustain and recover energy better.
Anyone know when statshark updates for the dev?
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it isnt tho,
if you have a competent enemy (which you have in a 1v1 custom) he is just going to fly circles around you while you are desperatly trying to keep the little speed you have
tbh the su-30 would be beter at dogfighting at most situations without tvc
tvc is only useful when it comes down to a close knife fight
should be as soon as the datamines go online
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That’s what happens when you put more weight, a worse engine and canards in the same plane. Many modern 4th gen variants perform worse than their 80s versions in bfm because today they prefer to sacrifice maneuverability for bvr performance.
What i’m saying is that “it is what it is”, It’ll be hard to see a modern 4th gen fighter performing better or even equally to their grandpa. Ingame the only hope for “dogfight enthusiasts” is the su-35 and even so i have my doubts cuz that thing weighs 19 tons compared to 16 of the su-27, i don’t know if the engines will be enough to make up for the weight increase.
It’s also important to note that MANY aircraft are overperforming (hello f16s that can pull 1 trillion AOA), their FMs being fixed matters much more if we want to have a balanced BFM gameplay, but people tried to get gaijin to do that for more than a year after Apex Predators update and they did nothing, only shameful excuses for not fixing their game.
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They could always give it AL-41
No absolutely not, if you want uprated engines you go back to the R-77
Lose the R-77-1 and the double pylons.
It depends.
In real life, TVC is useful for when both fighters are slow and stuck in a prolonged dogfight, and they simply do not have the position to fire off an Fox 2. In that case you have the freedom to point the nose in a way that a non-TVC fighter simply cannot and get that firing opportunity while the opponent is struggling to get behind you.
Unfortunately, with how WT air RB matches go there is almost always no prolonged dogfighting since you will get third-partied and shot down either by an friendly (mistake) or another enemy you were not aware of.
TVC also makes much more sense in a missile dogfight (usually one-circle nose-to-nose as both fighters attempt to jam the weapon engagement zone) than a guns-only dogfight (usually two-circle and a focus on achieving maximum turn rate for the longest amount of time).
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Sure, everyone wants it nerfed anyways
2nd Best Radar in game
12 ARHM
TVC
and you want the same performance level as an F-15E and a little bit worse than a Typhoon?
There has to be balance.
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The sustained rates on the EF-2000/Rafale are science fiction. Took them longer than a year to bring the Gripen down to from the best rate fighter to where it is now, and immediately after doing that they add the EF and the Rafale rating 1-2 dgs better than the F-16. Wild shit. And yeah the F-16 is definitely still pulling too much AoA.
But this is the Flanker thread. All we can do is be honest about the Su-30SM’s woeful BFM profile.
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They can nerf arh numbers, tvc is more disadvantages than advantages, it climbs worse than a 27SM cause it’s heavier and has worse engine
In fact let’s just nerf it to hell and give it N001, that would make you happy no?
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