At 0.7M it will still be possible. But you will break the plane. The overload will exceed the permissible
The efficiency of the stabilizer begins to fall from Mach = 1
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
No one will give you these, so be content with calculations
Then stop wasting my time cause i dont care about some random person claim aka you on internet.
Please dont turn the thread into Ziggy1989 2.0, please. It was looking calm again after he was muted.
Thats what im trying to do.
I asked concrete evidence but since he doesnt have it he just kept derailing the thread.
Anyway its already over, dont worry.
Peace
Why is it relevant if it does or not?
The F-16 can easily “Cobra” without limiters, the Su-27 would likewise be similarly capable… both with full armaments. What is necessary for a successful Cobra is simply enough pitch authority to gain a certain pitch rate. This high pitch rate allows for overshoot of normal AoA and passes through the instable AoA’s quickly enough to avoid unwanted lateral forces.
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Can you Show me a single F-16 that can do Cobra in real life or better yet can you Show me single piece of source that shows Su-27 is capable of doing Cobra with Full armament and full fuel?
Let me give you an answer already: you cant because such things are not possible.
So stop wasting my time because BBCRF already did that, i dont have spare one to waste on you.
You dont like how su-27 cant perform 120 degree Cobra maneuver with clean configuration? Thats fine and it should be fixed , but dont come here and waste my time.
The F-16 cannot properly “Cobra” without the mounted ordnance, but of course no one is going to disable the computer to try this. There only needs to be sufficient pitch rate and elevator authority must be enough to recover. F-16 lacked in one of those areas until the introduction of the IAHT.
The math to determine if Cobra is possible is simple, is pitch rate sufficient enough for AoA overshoots > 60 degrees? Yes? Then the pitch is not the issue.
Is the elevator control sufficient to put nose down and allow recovery at pitch overshoots > 90 degrees? Yes? Then pitch is not the issue.
The Cobra is possible on these aircraft. This much is evident because the aircraft naturally departs in pitch vector when AoA overshoots occur. With correct ordnance and weight loading, center of gravity & pitch moment is sufficient for recovery. The math to determine this is there and has been provided for you.
You are wasting your own time. No one here is coming to you with the goal of convincing you of anything. We are simply stating what is already known and accepted. If you wished to assist in forming some sort of report you could always reference some source material that provides necessary datapoints for in-game testing… or could simply assist with the testing. Instead you want to complain about “Don’t waste my time”… ???
Feel free to avoid the forum if you want to better utilize your time I guess.
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Aside from Vista model (which is a experimental version) no production variant of F-16 is capable of doing Cobra, FCS simply doesnt allow you to do that and you cant just simply override it, another waste of time.
Is this a fancy way of saying you also dont have any concrete evidence that shows Su-27 is capable of doing Cobra with full loadout i guess, thanks for proving what i already know.
Im tired of meaningless conversations with you, all you’re doing simply throwing baits.
Also i prefer to avoid you and BCRF because you two are the only ones who’s wasting my time in this forum, feel free to reply me when you get something that is useful.
Until then, dont bother me.
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The second test case which was flown in the El simulator was with the basic F-16 with
the AOA limiter control loop disabled. This test series produced pitch axis char-
acteristics which closely approximated the Cobra maneuver. The peak pitch
angle achieved was approximately 110°, the peak AOA was approximately 92 deg.,
and the peak pitch rate was approximately 34" per second. These
figures were close to the Cobra maneuver but especially in the pitch rate
term were somewhat less robust than the Su-27. However, it is significant to note
that the F-16, during the simulated Cobra maneuver, experienced loss of lateral-
directional control which was described as a nose-slice by the pilot. The aircraft
rolled off from the show line and entered into a stable deep-stall trim point at
approximately 60" AOA which was main-tained until ground impact.
I don’t think any normal Su 27 pilot would try the Cobra at full weight. I’m not sure of the result and why would he do that ?
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Whats funny is Russians didnt invented the Cobra maneuver, Sweden’s did.
J35 is the first production supersonic jet that was capable of doing Cobra, but even then Sweden’s never attempted to do this maneuver with full loadout.
Su-27 is Heavy long range fighter with insane amount of missiles, if any pilot attempts to do Cobra maneuver while having full armament and fuel it will most likely cause heavy damage on airframe and plane will simple become unairwhorthy, thats why they evade tho pulls this move with that kind of ordinance.
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The presence of A-A weapons does not significantly affect the piloting of the Su-27
It’s not a cobra. Aaa has not reached 90 degrees.On the cobra, it is 110-130
Nobody said anything about piloting, i specifically talked about pulling Cobra with full loadout and fuel.
You were saying? 120 degree requirement is just something that Russian claims considering Sweden pilot was doing this maneuver before Russians had nerve to pull it.
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However, he is considered to be the cobra. And not what the Swedes showed
The cobra maneuver is also part of the aerobatics. And I’ve already explained it to you. Watch the pitch moments
full A-A ammo
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Sweden’s performed this maneuver before Russians, any russian claims is irrevelant in this case.
Also it doesnt matter if you reach 90 degree or 120, if you manage to pull this move in right time you will get your opponents behind no matter what.
Finally, something i was asking for two days is finally here.
Are those mockups missiles or real ones?
Also it seems Cobra maneuver performed at really low speed which indicates this was more of a Show move rather than actual combat one.
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It is the maneuver performed on the Su-27 that is generally recognized
The rockets are not real, they are mass-dimensional models
it is impossible to estimate the speed from the video
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Not exactly . By the time Su-27 was produced and perform Cobra maneuver Swedish pilots were already doing that.
J35 is older than Su-27.
Do they weight same around as real ones?
Also as far as i know Cobra maneuver should be performed at 650ias in combat scenarios, in video however Su-35 was flying much slower i believe.
Last but not least Su-35 should have better airframe strength compare to Su-27 not to mention it has more powerful engines and TVC, so its possible to perform Cobra maneuver with loadout in Su-35.
It doesn’t matter what the Swedes did before.Once again, the generally accepted cobra maneuver is the one that was shown on the Su-27
yep
You’ll never know in the video. How fast he was flying. The Su-35 in the video is an early prototype made from the T10M, it does not have a TVC
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So you didn’t read or understand what I said at all or are actively ignoring it to argue for the sake of… arguing. Just stop it. Enjoy the above video with the Su-27 variant performing Cobra with air to air load.
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