Visibility was nonexistent over the wing and above too. You need to see your wings & pylons for weapon deployment issues & battle damage assessment.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
Another reason.
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This is where he always gets so close but misses the mark. Pride is the enemy & distorts your sound judgement.
Of course, this is absolutely correct. For the F-15. However, If supermaneuvrability only offered an extremely niche benefit…
Why are the F-22, Su-57 & J-20B operators spending the very costly service & maintenance on them every flight hour??
Because it is much more than a niche benefit.
The benefits outweigh the cost & there is more to it than what Google, or American propaganda tells you.
This isn’t true, modern IR missiles have smaller fragmentation and more precision, directional warheads, etc.
You can’t speak from a trojan high horse when you aren’t learned on the subject. Quit trying to speak from some sense of superiority until you provide sources as some foundation for your tall tales.
they definitely do not have a directional warhead. Second, if you look at the development of missiles. Then the melee missiles only added weight and power to the warhead
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I very much would like this community & platform to be the one the few that seeks out a truth together. Rather fall into propaganda and split off to a hyper polarized side of one vs the other.
If we can begin to generate investigations in to technologies & doctrines without declaring one is useless because a F-16 pilot (of course he would) say its a useless tactic & technology.
Trojan high horse is an odd one but I like it. Usually, the enemy sits within the horse to be a Trojan Horse.
What sources? You need Russian pilots saying the capability is useful? Or American? Pick.
Directional warheads are a feature of most gen5 missiles.
Then post sources and stop making stuff up
The Supermaneuvrability is useful? Even when I post sources you do not even read them…
What source do you need? A Russian pilot saying its useful? Or American?
Do you need me to provide official VKS Weapons & Tactics doctrine? Probably a little illegal & hard to find…
Are missiles with thrust vectoring better in close quarters?
Why wouldn’t aircraft with TVC?
The dimensions of the air-to-air missiles do not allow this to be done
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Why are you so antagonistic lol?
I think you need to take a break from these forums, it can be good for your blood pressure.
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Pilot & now a cardiologist? What haven’t you done?
Look, I am asking what I need to provide. Yeah, it’s a little sarcastic but all in good fun. Plus, dramatic claims get dramatic responses. Some find it funny. You are apparently not.
I do gtg. thanks for reminding me. Later.
There are well sourced third party studies on these tactics, a Google search would do you well. I know they don’t teach this where you’ve been for a decade, but you can use Google scholars to find better sourced materials for reading or even just search by filetype:pdf
Everything I have ever sourced you never read it, you ignore it.
What do you need? Be specific? A Russian pilot saying, “yeah dude totally” or an American one saying, “yeah bro, totally”?
Because all you guys have is one F-16 pilot saying “nah bro its weak” (of course he would) & reddit experts claiming it’s not useful either of course.
Do you guys have 3rd party studies stating supermaneuvrability is useless in a dogfight???
3rd party studies? Ok, I can find those for days. Secondary sources then. No tertiary?
Spoiler
According to Top Gun & the US Navy advisors that worked on the film Kvochur bell is definitely a tactic that can go down :)
Not dodge a missile per say but definitely swing over and slot behind opponents. Nah?
https://youtu.be/bwhjerfaAy0?si=bhg3MnBEbnl2PNpT
https://youtu.be/d7GbMg5X2yo?si=i5ZHaZHPMZTQcVO_
I am so surprised none of you have done random funny kills with the su27 in WT…Its funny because players in RB do not expect you to do it. I know @BBCRF would.
You have never been in a losing rate fight & ditch into a flat spin in the center (falling leaf)? Get off R-73s? Once your spin starts going, your nose will swipe or even follow the opponent perfectly. With HMD the low airspeed R73s are perfect for maneuvering… I had some pretty dope replays on the last update wish I saved them. It’s rare those opportunities happen but I look for them. I had a gun pass before too. A lot of times I do it too early and get sprayed, it happens. Best to do it in a rate (not a straight-line chase) where is nose cannot get you, but you know they are winning.
Or I will go vertical chasing a guy and at the peak of the climb I will hit full real & immediately pitch the nose directly at him before he even finishes (therefore my G-lock ends first) turning over & is likely still G-locked himself.
Kvochur bell is actually the easiest to perform in WT. Roll + pitch + elevator @ .70 or lower with full weapons & fuel (safest). Press the W key only to end it quicky if needed. You can bleed energy and still have enough speed to keep your nose on him the entire time switch back & HMS, R-73. I actually have my full real where my flaps went. (4th gen no longer need use of your flaps)
The trick is to disable your mouse for full real so it’s only keyboard, & use the mouse to free look (track IR is best). You need to switch back to mouse however to use the HMD effectively (it will lock up at center screen sometimes if IRST or HMD is not selected first with lock prior. (Still trying to find out what exactly causes it.).
Works amazing in cockpit especially with Track IR. Just look at the opponent. Does not for 3rd person (balance).
Matter of fact I will spend the rest time we have left to update getting some vids & providing sources.
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This isn’t relevant, there are scientific studies on the usefulness of the maneuvers. Read them.
This assumes the opponent got too close to you on accident, the implication being that the person on the offensive seriously messed up and you were defensive after a merge (meaning you messed up).
The opponent didn’t tighten down and move vertical away from your nose? Even so, why were you in such a slow speed and defensive to begin with?
You’re proving my point. Apparently it is a last ditch effort after you and the enemy both made massive mistakes. Even so, it only works out in video games.
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Sometimes it’s hard to look behind in the vertical my boy.
Who said it was any other? What’s massive mistakes? irl it’s hard to see everything you understand this. It’s not easy under the stress of combat. You think things develop so methodically?
Why?.. The nozzle 2D program started in 1979, the ATF program in 1981… Initially, it was planned to completely replace the entire F-15 fleet with 382 5th generation fighters… All other aviation countries of the world noted aircraft with front horizontal tail…
Spoiler
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From C.W. Lemoine, a retired F-16 pilot, these maneuvers just make you an easier target and would only work against pilots that are just “driving”. This was his comment from his reaction to BF3’s Hornet mission and to TGM’s clip you showed. The reason these maneuvers are looked down upon is that it bleeds all of your energy for an attempt at a target overshoot and follow up missile shot.
In game, I have used high AoA as a last ditch attempt to kill aircraft, sometimes being successful. However the Su-27 is a terrible close range fighter. It is humongous and burns energy so fast for its one turn advantage. There have been others that have tried to do this against me, and every time it has led to their death as they get gunned down due to their more exposed surface area or I exploit their energy disadvantage.
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lol. He’s is a pilot trained in a fighter with the exact opposite design doctrine & tactics.
Of course he will say it’s terrible. As much as I like the guy. This is standard issue propaganda. All actual fighter weapon school graduates are pretty clear. “If we can help it, avoid course quarters with the flanker.” What is so difficult in understanding this. Even as video gamers. They are tremendously dangerous close quarters fighters. The Flanker have both one circle & two circle capability, powerful engines & high Off boresight capability. Why would you want to deal with that in a dogfight?
How strong is the F-16 in a one circle? Who is likely to shoot first in a nose to nose fight?