MiG-29 SEP value is incorrect, that is obvious. I don’t know how you jumped to that conclusion.
No, you’re intentionally pretending to not understand his point.
Why are you so adamant? Is there some sort of dopamine response to guessing and being right? What if you’re wrong? Certainly you have not the faintest clue how they’ll respond.
It is underperforming in terms of sustained turn rate by .3-.5g when compared to chart values. As far as Gaijin is concerned this is within their margin of error based on all of their previous responses.
Please keep it PG in here, no need to get angry because you can’t admit error in your judgement.
Yes, and more so in terms of energy retention. Any such discrepancy warrants a report. Gaijin has fixed or adjusted several FM’s to match charts like this. Even more recently they adjusted the weight of the Fakour-90 by just 1kg to match the data I presented. Small adjustments are not new, and just to look at the G value (not even degree / sec sustained turn)…
2.5G / 2.2G = 1.136
That is 13.6% difference in sustained turn rate at that airspeed. There are larger gaps in that array there. 13.6 is 100% within the reasonable “fix” window.
Even basic upgrades to the airframe increase performance more than that. Being short 13.6% is like flying a stock performance plane around when you could have had it fully upgraded.
My guy…the flight model is garbage…but hey at least it can cober now. Pretty much every Western plane will slam it in a dogfight in Sim and it’s not really a close fight. It has the same issues with poor specific excess power that the Su-27 does.
It’s already been reported. It gets kicked back every time and the devs say that the sustained turn rate in-game matches the charts.
Maybe it gets fixed now by some miracle but I very much doubt it.
That was in regards to your language decisions.
The high alpha performance was horrible, having sustained turn rate worse than the F-16 or Gripen at the time as well. The aircraft now has at least one advantage it can utilize with the R-73 as opposed to nothing.
Of course it is still wrong, but you antagonizing the people trying to fix the FM’s does what exactly?
Yeah tbh, don’t know where to stand with the MiG-29 or Su-27 FM either…
From all that @Giovanex05 told me, MiG-29 should match most of his charts and probably would be one of the most realistic aircraft we have in game.
It may be underperforming in some areas… if @MiG_23M think it may be the case, that would mean it needs to be taken care of and tested in the proper thread.
As for the Su-27, seems like Giovanex bug report may help the aircraft under 600/500 kph where it struggles the most, taking a look at thrust maybe important as well since it seems to be overperforming.
Still, those aircraft needs a fix if they underperforming, even if it seems to be a big a small amount. (As long as Gaijin does their jobs xD)
We should wait and see what happens, I’m still a bit skeptical but the “if it matches the G charts in all of its specified speeds then it’s most likely right” feels convincing to me. I’m super dumb regarding these technical stuff and unfortunately for now i’m not having much free time to search about it, so my positions aren’t that reliable you know lol.
Btw @MiG_23M, what makes you think that SEP is incorrect in the case of the fulcrum? We can also bring this topic to the mig29 thread to avoid spamming stuff that don’t have much to do with the su-27.
I think one of the major problems about the state of Russian Aircraft is less obvious right now.
The Human mind tends to prioritise the immediate needs over the future,
However
Since literally EVERY Russian jet after SU-27/MİG-29 is a derivative of the two, having these FMs as a base means that Russian aircraft will forever be doomed to have horrible flight models, no matter what aircraft is added.
My fear is that even when they add SU/MİG-35, they’ll be nothing but glorified missile busses that just have better engines with Thrust vectoring, while having the same FMs.
Forever dooming an entire tech tree to be a sad joke forever
If they butchered the base Su-27 flight model, imagined how they’ll implement the Su-35 with thrust vectoring. Probably fall out of the sky after a hard maneuver.
Believe me, they know what it takes to fix it; they just don’t want it to be good. I’ve seen the same thing happen with many planes. I don’t understand technical matters like you do, but I do understand Gaijin’s decisions. They don’t want to do this to avoid complaints from those who spend USD on the game
I mean, It doesn’t really make sense from a technical standpoint, it’s not about x, y or z plane being better it’s about having the same level of accuracy for everyone, or at least try to.
MiG-29 and Su-27 are well known and loved aircraft in the aviation community, they are the symbol of former USSR and of Russia now.
I’ve seen lots of people being absolutely disgusted by the way Gaijin butchered these 2 FM.
There are some underlying issues in Gaijin way of implementing things that doesn’t help as well like the instructor, but in no way an aircraft should be that far away from what it’s looking like in real life (wether it’s underperforming or overperforming)
To add to what @Malekitth said, we will stick with those aircraft’s for some time.
And from what I understand Russian technology (Radar, RWR etc doesn’t improve as much as NATO does)
Guess which nations planes generate the most $$$$ from people buying premium birds.
Setting aside realism for a moment, the BR system is supposed to balance planes based upon competitiveness. Planes of equivalent performance are supposed to share the same BR. If one nation’s plane has an inferior flight model, inferior missiles, inferior radar, inferior RWR, and inferior countermeasure counts, the question is why does it share the same BR as the pinnacle of american engineering 104:0 god plane?
Gaijin has just had a really bad habit of putting vehicle metrics aside and looking at their black box of internal player performance statistics, and from all appearances the average american player manages to mishandle their planes by loading them down with 7000% fuel loads, 12 million pounds of bombs, and forgetting to map the button to raise their landing gear.
I’d very much like to see the flankers upgraded to the point of being an equal to the F-15 on the battlefield. But until such a point that gaijin actually fixes the flight model and/or newer variants with better radars, the elephant in the room to me is why is Gaijin dragging their feet so much with fixing the BRs? They were quick to downtier the F-15A despite it being pretty great when not burdened with 700,000 pounds of bombs. Why wait so long to downtier the flanker when everyone knows that it doesn’t even begin to fight on level footing in its current state in both RB and Sim? Personally I’m wondering if they’re intending to give Russia the R-77-1 or even R-27EA sooner rather than later, and internal discussions on that matter might be blocking BR downtiers since they know that an upgrade might potentially be around the corner. They’ve gotta do something eventually or else soon nobody at all will be queuing for red team in sim lobbies.
I think the answer is simply that people are still posting good games in the Flanker and the percentage of experienced vs inexperienced players that are willing to stick with it will skew the stats.
70 kills and 7 deaths split between 2 Flanker players. Looks pretty impressive? And it is if you don’t see the right side of the scorecard or realize what is going on.
What is actually happening is that red team players are working together in a squad and blue team players are largely clueless noobs. One guy has 45 deaths in the game…which props to him for sticking around…but there are no players in that list that have close to a positive KD and none that are going to counter two experienced players in a voice-call who are deliberately trying to run the numbers up. Most blue team players never learn how to utilize the capabilities of their planes because the capability gap and team balance means they never really have to. And the second they get challenged…they come to the forums to ask for the F-22, Aim-174, etc.
You’re discussing gameplay balance issues regarding simulator mode right now. Air RB has red vs red and blue vs blue with random matchups and always tries to put equal number of players in squads on both teams.
