Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection

[kitsune_qq]

If it wrong - why nobody used flight manual and other trustable sources?

[_Fantom2451]

None of RuAF planes have ever seen basic R-77

[dragonflaine71]

I already explained to you that the manuals doesn’t give you enough info regarding the energy bleed, to match the str they changed oswald coefficient in mig29 and su-27 without looking into other parameters of the flight model. You can match the charts using many different variables.

I also explained that the instructor is poorly adjusted, for the current fm (at least for the mig29) it’s too much to be efficient in 2C and too little to be efficient in 1C.

I also explained that we have a video comparing the energy bleed of a real su-27 to the ingame one, but you think it’s propaganda so i can’t argue about that, it’s my opinion against yours.

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

I already explained to you that the manuals doesn’t give you enough info regarding the energy bleed, to match the str they changed oswald coefficient in mig29 and su-27 without looking into other parameters of the flight model. You can match the charts using many different variables.

So, maybe then find some info in other sources?

@dragonflaine71

I also explained that the instructor is poorly adjusted, for the current fm (at least for the mig29) it’s too much to be efficient in 2C and too little to be efficient in 1C.

Instructor pulls too much, thats true, but you always can use full controlls which mostly fixes similar issue for F-15

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

Instructor pulls too much, thats true, but you always can use full controlls which mostly fixes similar issue for F-15

Full controls with mouse is super shit, when ppl play RB they want a simplified gamemode, it’s not fair to give a poor instructor to a plane giving it a poor performance while its counterparts have a much better configuration.

@kitsune_qq

So, maybe then find some info in other sources?

Ppl are trying to do that for these planes as we speak

[MiG_23M]

@ShinGetsu

Reading people constantly makes excuses about the state of the game is infuriating.

No one is making excuses except for those doing poorly in the aircraft. You have 10 missiles, 6 of which outclass anything in the game. Use them.

The plane may not be the best but that doesn’t mean you can’t use it well. Complaining here doesn’t help us unless you have something useful to the FM discussion. You want the excuses to stop? Stop complaining. Get out of our way so we can discuss the solution.

@ShinGetsu

Not really. MICA is a much better missile than what we have in the game at the moment, it’s extremely nerfed compared to its real life performance. From a balance standpoint, it does make sense.

The MICA isn’t “nerfed”. The kinematic performance is mostly accurate.

@ShinGetsu

I’m pretty sure the Aim120A and B we have right now are closer in performance to the early C versions too.

No, they are slightly underperforming to underperforming as much as 50% depending on scenario. The R-77 more so.

@_Fantom2451

None of RuAF planes have ever seen basic R-77

Though they have seen RVV-AE.

[BBCRF]

but they saw RVV-AE

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

Full controls with mouse is super shi

Mousejoystick in wt is really good, in some aspects better than joystick.

@dragonflaine71

it’s not fair to give a poor instructor to a plane giving it a poor performance while its counterparts have a much better configuration.

Its not fair to give good anything then, right?

@dragonflaine71

Ppl are trying to do that for these planes as we speak

But cant…
Or at least not really

[kitsune_qq]

@MiG_23M

Though they have seen RVV-AE.

Are you sure?
Theres no infrormation about it was on russian, only about export

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

Its not fair to give good anything then, right?

Well if you can give a good configuration for both but you decide to give good to one and mediocre to the other ur certainly being unfair 🤷

@kitsune_qq

But cant…
Or at least not really

This is purely an assumption based on nothing, i don’t get why you want to demotivate these guys.

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

Well if you can give a good configuration for both but you decide to give good to one and mediocre to the other ur certainly being unfair 🤷

F-15 for example also have bad instructor behavior, but who cries about that?

And still, game always give you access to better controls in RB.

@dragonflaine71

This is purely an assumption based on nothing, i don’t get why you want to demotivate these guys.

I seen only attemps by videos and etc. Theres other attempts?

I dont want to demotivate these guys, i dont care, but if there will be trustable source

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

F-15 for example also have bad instructor behavior, but who cries about that?

I disagree, f15A is one of the best dogfighters right now behind only the f16 and the gripen, but even if it had a lazy made instructor, that would only mean that it also need a rework, but as we are speaking of russian planes then it makes no sense in bringing up the f15s here.

And Saying “huh but you can turn the instructor off” makes no Sense because 1)I have yet to meet a player that likes to play with Full controls without a stick and 2) the instructor is a game mechanic, i play their game, there’s nothing wrong in demanding an improvement to make my experience better.

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

I disagree, f15A is one of the best dogfighters right now behind only the f16 and the gripen, but even if it had a lazy made instructor, that would only mean that it also need a rework, but as we are speaking of russian planes then it makes no sense in bringing up the f15 here.

F-15 is one of the best dogfighters, but instructor pulls too much, at least on high speed.
Not only russian planes have troubles with instructor in game.

[POLYDEUCES]

R-73 might be different but it’s not needed.
MiG-29G never was equipped with R-27ER/ET.

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

I seen only attemps by videos and etc. Theres other attempts?

I dont want to demotivate these guys, i dont care, but if there will be trustable source

1. The current russian energy bleeding also isn’t backed by the sources, so rn it’s a guess game

2. You don’t know if these guys are seeking for stuff on their privacy instead of posting everything in the forums, if they find something interesting i’m sure they’ll share with us, like mig did yesterday with a document he found interesting and in many others instances in the past, therefore saying that “they can’t” serves no purpose other than demotivating them.

3. I lost count of How many planes got nerfed/buffed after a long period of time and after many ppl declared “Nah, this is the final version!” multiple times.

These aircraft are all new in the game, if to this day they still couldn’t fix many 3rd gen which are much older than these, imagine how wrongly made are the 4th gen. If you don’t have anything to say besides “you can’t do It” then don’t say anything, being negative won’t help.

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

i dont care

If you don’t care why do you keep saying these things?

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

The current russian energy bleeding also isn’t backed by the sources, so rn it’s a guess game

Backed by thats how it in game btw, maybe just dev opinion/etc

@dragonflaine71

I lost count of How many planes got nerfed/buffed after a long period of time and after many ppl declared “Nah, this is the final version!” multiple times.

For changes you need sources, mostly.

@dragonflaine71

If you don’t care why do you keep saying these things?

Read fully, dont take it out of context.

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

Backed by thats how it in game btw, maybe just dev opinion/etc

Which doesn’t have a source in the manual

@kitsune_qq

For changes you need sources, mostly.

Which I explained that there are ppl trying to find

@dragonflaine71

You don’t know if these guys are seeking for stuff on their privacy instead of posting everything in the forums, if they find something interesting i’m sure they’ll share with us, like mig did yesterday with a document he found interesting and in many others instances in the past, therefore saying that “they can’t” serves no purpose other than demotivating them.

[dragonflaine71]

@kitsune_qq

I dont want to demotivate these guys, i dont care, but if there will be trustable source

You don’t care for what they’re doing, so why do you keep saying these stuff

[kitsune_qq]

@dragonflaine71

Which doesn’t have a source in the manual

Still, nowhere stated that dev must publish source.

@dragonflaine71

You don’t care for what they’re doing, so why do you keep saying these stuff

Let me rephrase that(with same meaning):
I dont care as long as source is trustable