Somewhat of a curiosity (y’all seem to know a lot of stuff…) but how’s the stealth performance of the SU-57 like?
I’ve seen plenty of claims and most of them are on the lower side of effectiveness but there’s plenty of negative bias when it comes to the SU-57 so I would love to hear a different kind of opinion…
Also is there a reason why the production of SU-57s is so slow? Or is it still in some kind of first batch pre-production phase?
Patent of the prototype PAK FA T-50 said average RCS was 1m² but obviously the production aircraft is quite different and likely has a much lower number. There are no current tests or evaluations worth their salt on the subject for the Su-57. Visually it is obvious that it would be inferior to the F-22 or F-35, but it could very well be a trivial matter as the sensors would pick one up likely before the radar does.
The facility to mass produce has not been built and they are not closing down lines for the other premier fighters to retool them for the Su-57 yet. Production pace will exceed the F-22’s in the next decade more than likely.
Hasn’t the production of F-22 stopped?
Su-57 still didn’t get phase 2 engines, but allegedly should get this year
Yeah I’ve seen some pictures but most of them seem to be heavily photoshopped…
Pls go here whenever discussion starts going off topic, just take message from here and respond in new thread
Appreciate it, bro.
From what I know its low observability is most prevalent & looking at it from the front. which makes sense. However. Some analyst & USAF pilots note that the exposed IRST & canopy bow of the cockpit are exceedingly detrimental to its RCS. The canopy bow on of the J-20 is mentioned as well. I expect the canopy bows will be removed from both in the near future.
Also, do keep in mind these aircraft are not truly stealth, neither is the F-22 or the F-35. They are not supposed to be. They are designed to be low observable & most importantly difficult to track.
There are certain unremovable qualities of a fighter (4th & 5th generation) that limit them from ever achieving true stealth capability such as the B-21 Raider & B-2 Spirit. For example, a fighter’s overall shape, their cockpit & canopy, intakes, advanced flight control surfaces, conventional flight control surfaces & engines etc.
Therefore, detection is not the primary concern for 5th generation fighters. Because low-frequency radars operating in the VHF and UHF bands can detect low-observable aircraft.
The primary objective of the technology is to reduce the ability & range that an enemy can track you & effectively target you.
The Su-57 does not need to be stealth. It just needs to be low observable enough to reduce the range he can be successfully targeted to safely & effectively deploy his ordinance off first. Same concept with the F-22 & F-35.
The Su-57 & Chinese J-20 are equipped with much longer ranged active missiles that cover ground much quicker.
This is an issue for the US because this means it does not matter how less “stealthy” the Su-57 & J-20 are compared to the F-22. They can remain well beyond the range of the Aim-120 & far enough from any other 4th generation aircraft to remain effectively low observable & unable to track. Of course, this all will come down to the radars.
Which the US does not truly know to a certainty how capable the N036 of the Su-57 is or the Type 1475 (KLJ-5) in the J-20 is.
So, to answer your question. Yes, the RCS of the Su-57 is much greater than the F-35 & F-22.
However, if we consider the Su-57’s long-ranged capabilities compared to the medium-ranged capabilities of the F-35 & F-22… A need to be just as “stealthy” as the F-22 Raptor does not seem so relevant anymore.
Remember, the F-22 was literally built & limited for medium range. The aircraft was entirely built around the Aim-120. Therefore, its RCS is required to be as low as it is because it is more susceptible to detection & tracking.
The F-22 & F-35 both operate & engage entirely at medium range or below where tracking much easier.
I believe the Su-57 is just as low observable as it needs to be. Same with the J-20.
If the US can manage to produce a hypersonic missile small enough to fit in the weapons bay of the F-22 & F-35. Then things may be different. We will have to wait & see.
Money is predominately the reason. Now it’s access to specialized components, which Russia can still get its hands on, just takes additional time & more money.
I honestly doubt they will be producing any new aircraft for a while let alone the Su-57.
As for serial production, the RuF just received a Su-57 delivery not too long ago iirc.
Also Su-27LL
https://otvaga2004.ru/kaleydoskop/kaleydoskop-air/5-6-pokoleniye-5/
In your video, the AL-31FM-1 engine
AL-41F1S -Часть 2. Двигатель V поколения как объективная реальность
Thank you so much for the answer and sorry if i reply now but i just got up from the bed (sleep schedule completely ruined due to exams).
I agree with you particularly on the detectability part and how these planes aren’t fully stealthy… Both J-20 and Su-57 have an advantage in terms of range so far (missiles) and they are as stealthy as needed to be potent at BVR.
Personally i feel like a true Fifth gen fighter should never get to extremely close dogfights since the tech is way too valuable to gamble it in a dogfight where the slightest mistake can make the “worse” plane win anyway.
I also totally agree with @MiG_23M that said the current RCS (average) of the Su-57 is 1m², but that isn’t the actual production model (that will have lower RCS) and as we’ve seen with the J-20 the differences between prototype/test bed to the production models are more than just noticeable (J-20’s RCS should be 0.01M² [this number is ofc approximated since these studies couldn’t evaluate details such as the radar absorbing material and its performance] from the studies and info i’ve seen online, there is a guy on X that made plenty of anysis and simulations).
I’ve in fact seen the new batch being delivered, should be around 16ish SU-57 in total if i’m not wrong.
Al-41 doesn’t have all-aspect TVC
I saw it, it’s wrong
The Su-27 is not stable at low speeds.On average, it is statically neutral
Otvaga2004 and aviation are not related concepts
There is a drawback to being able to see more; you see more of everything. There are other external factors such as ECM or SEAD aircraft that degrade this ability of detection. Not like this makes your statement any less true, much of it is nuanced.
These quotes don’t support each other, as it does matter who can target who first (excluding all factors outside of each respective plane). Having a longer range missile certainly increases Pk at closer ranges, but can be seen as net neutral if both aircraft are within their optimal deployment zones. While yes, the AIM-260 is still in development so the U.S. currently lacks capability on paper, there have been interim upgrades to the AIM-120D that its current upgraded range is unknown. I would assume that the capability gap is not as dire as projected. The J-20 to my knowledge is seen as a strategic threat to tankers and AWACS, not so much of a threat to the F-35 or F-22.
Mako ASM has been developed, but for air to air it will be the AIM-260.
The principal of stealth is that who sees who first wins the battle.
A modern AESA radar can detect an F35 at no more than 60km, well within the NEZ of the most modern missiles, and outside of the range of most IRST systems. So if the F35 is spotted, it is close enough to be shot down, but also means that it is highly likelybit has already launched a missile or two.
If the F35 can detect the Su57 or J20 at 80km, then something like a Meteor would easily be able to take them out without them knowing until its too late.
With full internal fuel it is statically stable, correct ?
Yes. However, we now live in a world where low observation is not so “low” anymore. Radars are now becoming far more powerful than advancements in RAM can keep up. You can only put so many materials on an aircraft. There is only so many elements on the periodic table my friend.
Radar technology & effectiveness has no bounds in sight.
This technology is heavily invested by the principal enemies of the US. You cannot kill what you cannot reach regardless if you see it first. The US has zero long range air to air capabilities. Neither does it have hypersonic air to air missiles
The US slept on its perch at the top & did not expect the rapid technological growth of the CCP.
They are desperately trying to catch up. That is a fact whether anyone likes it or not.
Stable