Chinese Prototype Flanker.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
1 Like
Hi all. Why does the Su27 in the game have a rate of climb of 225 m/s, although in reality its rate of climb is 300 m/s, which corresponds to the technical specifications of the Air Force. but the game is missing 75 m/s
1 Like
Are you looking at the star card by any chance? If so ignore it
2 Likes
Do PD have much better lock on range than HDN PD? Isn’t the Headon mode should have better range against hot targets?
Is Su27 Radar that bad?
Last time i used missile bus playstyle was using F14B and i don’t have problem with it
While su27 radar made me cried to use it
The issue is always with player not providing the whole information.
No, PD radar should not lock chaff under any circumstances.
I have been clear on the bug report that you need:
Clog
DxDiag
Screenshot taken with IN GAME functionality.
Unless these information have been attached, forwarding the report is useless.
2 Likes
like for example here:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/jfLPc0Q3cNbl
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/Bwx2go47F63t
It seems people don’t know how to follow instructions correctly….
If I have access to a computer then I can do those steps myself, but I am on break and I only have a cellphone.
There is nothing I can do if the proper steps are not followed
3 Likes
I might be wrong on these points, but this is how I understand things work.
I know flares are supposed to be less effective if you have your afterburner running, but in my personal experience all IR guided missiles are prone to chasing flares regardless of if your afterburner is on or not. Unless maybe you’re stupidly hot like an F-14. I don’t think that the R-73 has any system in place to protect it from being defeated by flares that it sees. As far as I understand things, the R-73’s IRCCM technique is to dramatically reduce the field of view of its seeker to mitigate the chance that it sees a flare in the first place. This technique decreases in effectiveness with range. So an R-73 fired within gun range can seem near unflareable since it it’s unlikely that it even sees the flare dispenser, but an R-73 that’s several km away is easy to flare. In the event that the flares are dispensed in a way that they happen to still pass in front of the R-73’s field of view, then even a close range R-73 might be flared. I recall reading somewhere that if you have time before the missile impacts, that you can sometimes flare a close range R-73 by doing an aileron roll and spamming flares off in every direction. Ofcourse if the missile is that close, you don’t often have time to do something like that. Anecdotally I think the Magic 2 uses the same IRCCM technique, one was fired at me in rear aspect while I was near max speed, and I managed to defeat it with a roll and flare spam. Sample size of 1.
Secondly, I don’t know if this is a real thing or if it’s even modeled in war thunder, but I think I saw a documentary once that said that the intial few moments of acceleration after launch are so turbulent that air to air missiles initially lose track of their targets. But the missile has a rough idea of where its target should be, and re-acquires it shortly after launch once things get a bit less turbulent. If that’s correct, then I presume that there is a short window immediately after launch where our missiles are more prone to being bamboozled by flares.
Long story short I’m not surprised that a Grippen spamming flares is well defended against pretty much any IR missile in game.
2 Likes
I completely understand what you mean, but at that moment i was just trying to clarify my doubts if this was now just an implementation in the game about how the radars would work or a bug, apparently it is a bug, I will find a way to get the necessary evidence to make a bug report, it is very easy to reproduce the bug and see the radar locking any chaff not the actual plane, but thanks for the answer
1 Like
yeah based on what you told me im not surprised either but doesnt seem right at all, the thing is invencible against any IR missile, maybe only the aim9m can do something, also the r73 auto pilot at low speeds is very bad rn, sometimes the missile just goes crazy spinning around
1 Like
If the grippen sees the 9M coming, IMO he’d have an easier time flaring it than the R-73. Well, than an R-73 fired at ~2 or ~1.5km or closer. R-73s are pretty easy to flare beyond 2km.
The 9M and AAM-3 use this technique where the seeker detects if it sees flares. When it does, it stops tracking heat sources, swaps over to inertial guidance, and continues on its original intercept course. This continues until it stops seeing extra heat sources. Then it returns to heat seeking mode.
So the way to defeat the 9M is to continuously drop flares to keep it in inertial guidance mode, and make a hard turn so that you are no longer on the original intercept path. Normally this is problematic for planes because burning that many flares is a problem. But the grippen has an abundance of flares. Between their massive stockpile of flares and their flight model, the grippen has a really easy time defeating any 9M that they see coming. But if they don’t notice the 9M and keep flying in a straight line, then yes the 9M will probably still get him with inertial mode even if they’re dumping a million flares.
What makes the 9M so powerful is that this IRCCM technique is extremely potent at defeating “accidental” countermeasures. Those situations where you shoot at a target, the target never sees your attack coming, but he accidentally defeats it because periodic countermeasures were turned on, he deployed flares vs a third party’s attack, or his “spidey sense” told him that he should pop flares just to cover his behind. The 9M is pretty easy to defeat if you see it coming and have a handful of flares ready to burn.
IMO the 9M is overall better for the Air RB meta because you don’t need to do anything fancy with it. You can just fly into the furball and vibe-check a bunch of people back to back from relatively safe distances. Statistically a number of opponents are going to be overwhelmed by everything that’s going on around them and fail to take appropriate anti-9M action. IMO the R-73 pulls ahead once you close within ~1.5km side or rear aspect. Then they’re pretty much dead unless they get lucky. Either a lucky flare will stop it, or they’ll get lucky and the R-73 will bug out and enter an uncontrolled spin. But often the opponent is just dead if you can launch that close from a good angle. Anecdotally I feel like those uncontrolled spins occur most often when I’m launching while in a vertical climb, so I’ve started trying to abstain from pure vertical launches. At least that’s how it feels to me. I’ve only been using the R-73 for a short time and I’m just trying to learn fast.
One trick that you can do is to hard lock the grippen with radar and use that to slave the R-73 to the radar lock. Obviously it won’t help once it’s off the rails, but it will at least automatically de-lock the flares and re-lock the grippen while you’re trying to maneuver for a clean shot and waiting for a window of opportunity to shoot between his flares.
2 Likes
1 Like
No, if you radar slave R73 on gripen that goes on AB and launch rear aspect R73 at around 1km in 1sec hole between series, its going to hit, i killed plenty like that.
1 Like
Majority of players aren’t capable of that fortunately.
- target has sky as background
- near head on with very high closure speed
- multiple lock attempts with SRC PD HDN
- can’t keep lock for even one second between 40km to 20km
skill issue or labor of love moment?
1 Like
su27 radar is shit in game, especially when it comes to locking
2 Likes
Same thing happens to me too. Sometimes I lock somebody and radar keeps the target lock until the end of times no matter what he does, sometimes it just refuses to get a lock on anything to the point where even something like a Mig-23 can easily outrange my radar. It’s just a wild card for me.
1 Like
GJN logic, same with tanks. Trust us newer tech=more bad!
1 Like
My participation is also there
5 Likes
Is that a MIG-23 you’re locking? If so there is a bug where their RCS gets weird with wings back and speeds over mach 1.2. Used to be all swing wings, but was fixed, now its back and just affecting the 23.