Judging by this table, the MiG-23 and Su-17 are still in dire need of a nerf.
Please remove the link, it is glitching the forum so that I cannot scroll and read further replies.
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This may not be relevant for the report because the aircraft performing the maneuvers in the video will not be outfit with a full missile combat load and the fuel stated in that chart. If the performance with less weight, no stores, and lower fuel is not extrapolated properly by Gaijin it will underperform in-game… which was expected.
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Look, I agree the FM is laughable at low speeds, we even have a report from Giovanex proving that.
But again, we don’t know the fuel load. He could have like 3 minutes left when going into the turn, as it is near the end of the show. We don’t know if this plane has been stripped down or not (there is probably a way to verify this). And most importantly, we don’t know what speed he went into the maneuver with and what speed he came out with. Meaning, we don’t know if it was a sustained turn or not (he could have just burned 200 km/h in that turn). You can’t compare sustained turn figures to the turn time in this clip.
Unless you can get a decent approximation of his initial and out of turn speeds, dig up some info on the weight of the aircraft, and have a big enough margin (in-game vs clip), you will not get far.
Hell, I did a very rough test with a wobbly turn. 27SM, 7 min fuel, nothing on the pylons, chaff/flare loaded, full gun ammo. Went into the turn with 680 km/h and left with 330 km/h. Completed in ~17 seconds.
Normally, 2-3 second difference for a full turn is a lot, but with so many variables unknown, I doubt we can make a meaningful bug report.
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Damn, I though it was something wrong on my end.
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In-game war thunder with 10s fuel (frozen) is underperforming compared to the video by about ~2 deg/s it seems, I’ll re-test and record rather than running the stopwatch on my phone for exact results.
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Isn’t 10 minutes quite a lot, though? The figures in the manual are given for around 7-8 minutes of fuel. The guy in the video also seems to be doing the turn at the end of his flight program, so he might have quite a bit less.
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I said 10 seconds
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Do not use mouse aim for reports on this. Fly it correctly by hand or it’s not worth diddly squat.
Oh, I guess that is a big enough margin, then.
I couldn’t get it in under 19s starting from ~550 km/h (340mph) and ending 270 km/h (167mph).
Moreover, there is no speed I can start this maneuver at on mil thrust where the plane maintains “control”. It is always on the verge of stalling. It cannot complete a “quick” turn in such a manner without being on the edge of departure.
Starting at 740 km/h (450 mph) and ending at 300km/h (187mph) the aircraft makes the turn in no less than 17s.
Does anyone have the aerobatics manual for the Su-27? I have the one for the MiG-29. I think it may be worth taking a look at some very basic maneuvers per the manuals to see if they are even possible in-game. I’d hazard a guess that this isn’t the case.
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This confirms it, then.
Don’t have the full PDF on me right now, but there is a zip of its pages here:
http://www.airwar.ru/other/bibl/su27sk_rle.zip
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I’ve already done a report with this chart and, despite it not being used in any report before, the report was not forwarded.
Nz/Ny thing was related to other aircraft overperforming thought, MiG-29 and Su-27 charts were used fine (they both use the same overload as the local host, no issue there)
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I’m quite confident thrust is overperforming in the in game flanker, which means that drag is too high to somewhat adjust sustained turn with afterburner on. The way to test this would be to sustained a turn with a constant Ny=5G turn from 500kph to 700kph. If the aircraft over performs in the test (aka accelerates faster than it should), that means (since sustained turn is more or less (more less than more) matching with afterburner on) that the aircraft thrust is too high and induced drag also too high, which helps the aircraft when doing slight turns but kills his SEP when pulling hard.
If someone can do the test (start turn from 500kph, keep turning at 5G looking at localhost until one reaches ~750kph while recording) it would be greatly appreciated, since without a stick (I don’t have one) doing this is close to impossible. Configuration is 2 R-73, 2 R-27R with 18900kg total mass. Once in test flight one can adjust the mass here: http://localhost:8111/editor/fm_commands.html
In general also remember that flanker carries a lot of fuel and engines aren’t too thirsty in afterburner, compared to something like the F-16C you can start the match with 60% of the fuel you would use on the 16C and have somewhat equal endurance. A minute of fuel in the flanker is a lot of kg, it greatly helps performance.
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This chart is complete nonsense. since it is impossible to keep 300m/s at 5G
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How do you know that turn was “sustained” turn rate?
it’s not nonsense lol, the chart measures how much you accelerate holding that overload at a determined speed.
Unit of measurement is m/s because it’s SEP, so one needs to convert it to acceleration:
m\,g\,h = \dfrac{1}{2}\,m\,V^2
\dfrac{d}{dt}m\,g\,h = m\,g\,\dot h = m\,g\,SEP(V) and \dfrac{d}{dt} \dfrac{1}{2}\,m\,V^2 = m\,V\,\dot V
m\,g\,SEP(V) = m\,V\,\dot V
\dfrac{dV}{dt} = \dfrac{g}{V}\, SEP(V)
\displaystyle\int_{v_0}^{v_f} \dfrac{V}{SEP(V)}\;\mathrm{d}v = \displaystyle\int_{t_0}^{t_f} g\,\mathrm{d}t .
If we take the MiG-29, then for it nx = 0.7 at a speed of 850 km/h or 236 m /s for 5G
Vy=0.7*236=162 m/s
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It depends on the aircraft fuel load and altitude. MiG-29 chart is at 2000m, here is 200m. Flanker at 3000m and 850kph is about 120m/s while at 200m (which we can approximate at 0m) is ~200m/s.
If things scaled about linearly flanker at 2000m is about 140m/s. It makes sense that is lower than MiG-29 because MiG-29 has better rate at high speed and the MiG-29 is also relatively lighter in the chary where Nx= 0.7 for 5G
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