But it’s not useless. So many people call it useless but it can be a life saver.
this is from 20 minutes ago
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Agreed, nice kill btw
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Again, it is useless. It grants you a last second hail mary in a situation where you already should have been dead in the first place. It allows you to punish someone for making an already severe mistake.
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The plane practically doesn’t have anything going for it. It has:
- Obsolete radar
- Inferior missiles
- A flight model that loses in a dogfight to every peer
It’s inferior up close. It’s inferior far away. Being able to pull a “useless” cheap shot out of thin air is one of the only things going for it.
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I don’t have any issues with it for being so awful as you claim.
I didn’t make a mistake, I intentionally dropped my speed via airbrake and throttle. I didn’t do it because I lost my speed unintentionally.
The Mirage-2000 can permanently stay at High speed in a turn somehow, despite being a delta wing.
He would have bled me dry if I hadn’t done it and fought conventionally
I did it because there is no way in hell the SU-27 flight model can compete with any fighter right now.
I already had the idea of using my high AOA capability in my mind at the start of the duel. But yes it’s a gamble, a 1 trick pony. If the R-73 misses or gets flared you’re a sitting duck.
So I HAD to do something like this because it’s the only way this flying tincan can really accomplish something in BFM, especially in RB with the pathetic instructor limitations
I also hate how I have to switch to full real mid fight in a split second to do this
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The plane performs well enough that player skill can overcome its shortcomings vs lesser opponents. But the plane is simply outclassed at everything except carrying 10 missiles. An equally skilled opponent in an F-15, F-16C, or Gripen should be winning every time. The Su-27 and 27SM is still deadly enough to fight in game but it fights uphill in the snow both ways. When you win with it, you win because you overcome its shortcomings not because you have any big advantages to leverage.
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It’s not really inferior up close… R-77s and R-73s still kick ass.
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It’s still chaffing up against problems with the plane. The flanker really doesn’t want to get into a dogfight against anybody. Being able to do a HMD assisted HOBs shot at a wonky angle, that perhaps requires throwing all of your energy away with something as desperate as a cobra just to get that angle, is the one thing keeping it from just automatically losing in a knife fight. Try to use R-77’s at pitbull range and you run into the awkward problem of having half the ACM range of your opponents if you try to lock via HMD ACM. Using BVR targeting to acquire that pitbull lock fights you because you by far have the slowest scanning radar. If you want to be more creative then you can try locking with IRST and transferring the lock to your radar. But that’s more button presses. It doesn’t always work. It also just doesn’t work if it’s raining, or it’s foggy, or there are clouds.
Like I said. You can fight. But it’s uphill. In the snow. Both ways.
Yep. It’s definitely not on the level of an AMRAAM platform but IMO its the best of the worst, meaning the best non AMRAAM platform.
It’s missile set can somewhat make up for its shortcomings like, I use the R-27ER for BVR to get a kill or potentially force the enemy defensive. I usually launch these 60km+ to make sure I have enough distance to guide the ER all the way and still have time to defend against AMRAAMs.
The R-27ET is also a great missile, though I mainly use it against unaware targets, especially ones at high altitude side/rear aspect (as far as 29km cold!).
Close range/dogfighting it does well despite having the flight model of an oversized Phantom because of the R-73 and R-77, its rare but dogfights do happen and I’ve won a few of them with the R-73/R-77.
It’s always an uphill battle but I guess that’s what makes it attracting to play to me.
You did it because you wanted to, doesn’t make it the right move. He could have just killed you and moved on with his day but he messed up… badly. You’re not going to be able to back your point here.
I don’t think that is the issue at all, I think that the aircraft does well because it isn’t really bad. It just isn’t top of the pack like the Gripen.
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I mean fair point, but that will be the literal definition of a sitting duck, right? :D
if all that the enemy has is AIM-120 it might actually work, but yes
aaaand the IRST is now only scanning in a fixed zone. I guess this is another temporary fix for the new bug that caused it to look directly up/down.
Yes, its the best among TORNADO F3 and F-4F LKSW. They are all in the garbage tier, SU-27 is just the best of this tier
The Su-27SM is better than the M2K, R-Darter Gripen, Tornado, F-4F ICE, Baz, J-11A, and Derby slingers. IMO at least.
Its not Garbage tier. If all the good airframe AMRAAM slingers like the F-15C, F-16C, and Gripen are at S tier, the Su-27SM would be A tier. Its not as bad as you all make it seem to be like “garbage tier”, it has a lot of options and that’s what makes the Su-27SM a good aircraft.
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It’s a lot worse in SB than it is in RB because the radar is the primary method for finding targets and maintaining situational awareness and engaging with missiles.
Planes like the Mirage 2000 and Bripen perform better than the Su-27 because their radars will acquire and populate targets faster and more reliably. They are also visually smaller and have more countermeasures. Even the Israeli planes with Derbys still have good radar sets which makes a huge difference in target acquisition time.
If there was a tier list for general gameplay, the F-15C and F-15J are S-tier for most players because you can simply fly high and sling AMRAAMs with a predictable outcome. F-16C and Swipen also found out S tier because they have better missiles, radar, and flight performance than basically anything they can face.
A-tier would basically be all of the NATO planes that don’t have AMRAAM. So basically Bripen, Mirage 2000, and Derby F-16s and probably in that order. They still have some combination of flight performance, radar, and countermeasures.
B-Tier is basically everything else that still has an RWR and acceptable flight performance or some kind of gimmick. So basically MiG-29SMT and Su-27.
C-Tier is going to be planes like the J-11A, F4F ICE, and Tornado F.3. The J-11A is just a straight worse Su-27SM because of the RWR. The Tornado F.3 and F4F ICE are planes that are carried by the fact they have AMRAAM and good radars.
Now if you pay attention to national presets in sim…pretty much the bulk of a red side team will be made up of planes that are below average and they are mostly fighting at a huge numerical disadvantage as well.
I have my own sim community and I know a lot of players who’s were basically brand new to top tier and were able to post positive kill to death ratios in planes like the F-15C or F-16C almost immediately. I have played a lot of USA and RUS planes myself and the difference in difficulty in how hard you have to play in one vs the other is a night and day difference.
USA only players completely lack this perspective which is a huge issue when it comes to discussing it. For instance there is another thread where a USA player was complaining about the MiG-29 being in the same BR as the F-16A because it has the R-27ER…and the R-27ER is OP and the MiG-29 does everything better than planes like the F-14A/B…including dogfighting. I challenged him to a duel and I won 3-0 in F-14A against MiG-29…he didn’t even want to go to the BVR portion at that point.
And I’ve played the F-16A recently in order to spade it. I don’t even have the full load of Aim-9L unlocked and I’m sitting at 60-6 KD…with only 3 of those deaths in the new bracket…and 1 of those was friendly fire. And I also have a 100 percent win rate in it. It really is the biggest possible hand holding experience imaginable.
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Yeah I can’t really form an opinion for SB since I don’t play sim but for RB my stance remains unchanged.
Maybe that’s true in simulation, but in realistic mode, anything that isn’t an F-15 or F-16C is mid-tier
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