Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection (Part 1)

[Panther2995]

@BBCRF

No source is needed, just look at the aerodynamic moments and the control system

Oh yea cause we should definitely take your words as source itself.

You’re getting worse buddy.

[BBCRF]

It’s not my fault that you’re 😁.
Mz=mz*qSba
q-dynamic pressure
S-wng area
ba-MAC
Two more damping moments are added here.They do not depend on the mass in any way. they depend on the speed
The only component that is affected by weight is

[kitsune_qq]

@BBCRF

This can be done with full refueling and rockets. The fact is that for the cobra, you need to disable the G and AOA limit, as well as disable the pitch damper.But no one does with full fuel and weapons, you can break the plane

And ger into plane limitation, yes

[BBCRF]

I wrote it.That you can break an airplane

[kitsune_qq]

Not only limit, you can just stop, until specific AOA reached

[BBCRF]

Not if you turn off the pitch damper.You won’t be able to stop him, but you’ll only make it worse.
You cannot move the control knob quickly

[kitsune_qq]

Plane have not only structural limitations.
Sometimes you will just not able to pull after plane limit by aerodynamics

[BBCRF]

Yes, it will be impossible to do this on supersonic.And at high altitude.Since the effectiveness of the stabilizer is deteriorating

[kitsune_qq]

Not only supersonic, even on 0.7 mach it will be hard

[Panther2995]

@BBCRF

It’s not my fault that you’re dumb.

How many times do i have to tell you to watch your mouth? And he calls me dumb, jeez.

@BBCRF

Mz=mz*qSba
q-dynamic pressure
S-wng area
ba-MAC
Two more damping moments are added here.They do not depend on the mass in any way. they depend on the speed
The only component that is affected by weight is

I dont care about your random formulas and calculations, i specifically asked official documents that indicates Su-27 can perform Cobra move with full armament and full fuel load.

Either bring some concrete evidence or stop wasting my time.

[BBCRF]

At 0.7M it will still be possible. But you will break the plane. The overload will exceed the permissible
The efficiency of the stabilizer begins to fall from Mach = 1

[BBCRF]

@Panther2995

I dont care about your random formulas and calculations, i specifically asked official documents that indicates Su-27 can perform Cobra move with full armament and full fuel load.

Either bring some concrete evidence or stop wasting my time.

No one will give you these, so be content with calculations

[Panther2995]

Then stop wasting my time cause i dont care about some random person claim aka you on internet.

[somebody_Else]

@Panther2995 @BBCRF

Please dont turn the thread into Ziggy1989 2.0, please. It was looking calm again after he was muted.

[Panther2995]

Thats what im trying to do.

I asked concrete evidence but since he doesnt have it he just kept derailing the thread.

Anyway its already over, dont worry.

[dragonflaine71]

Peace

[MiG_23M]

@Panther2995

I dont care about your random formulas and calculations, i specifically asked official documents that indicates Su-27 can perform Cobra move with full armament and full fuel load.

Either bring some concrete evidence or stop wasting my time.

Why is it relevant if it does or not?
The F-16 can easily “Cobra” without limiters, the Su-27 would likewise be similarly capable… both with full armaments. What is necessary for a successful Cobra is simply enough pitch authority to gain a certain pitch rate. This high pitch rate allows for overshoot of normal AoA and passes through the instable AoA’s quickly enough to avoid unwanted lateral forces.

[Panther2995]

@MiG_23M

The F-16 can easily “Cobra” without limiters, the Su-27 would likewise be similarly capable… both with full armaments. What is necessary for a successful Cobra is simply enough pitch authority to gain a certain pitch rate. This high pitch rate allows for overshoot of normal AoA and passes through the instable AoA’s quickly enough to avoid unwanted lateral forces.

Can you Show me a single F-16 that can do Cobra in real life or better yet can you Show me single piece of source that shows Su-27 is capable of doing Cobra with Full armament and full fuel?

Let me give you an answer already: you cant because such things are not possible.

So stop wasting my time because BBCRF already did that, i dont have spare one to waste on you.

You dont like how su-27 cant perform 120 degree Cobra maneuver with clean configuration? Thats fine and it should be fixed , but dont come here and waste my time.

[MiG_23M]

@Panther2995

Can you Show me a single F-16 that can do Cobra in real life

The F-16 cannot properly “Cobra” without the mounted ordnance, but of course no one is going to disable the computer to try this. There only needs to be sufficient pitch rate and elevator authority must be enough to recover. F-16 lacked in one of those areas until the introduction of the IAHT.

The math to determine if Cobra is possible is simple, is pitch rate sufficient enough for AoA overshoots > 60 degrees? Yes? Then the pitch is not the issue.

Is the elevator control sufficient to put nose down and allow recovery at pitch overshoots > 90 degrees? Yes? Then pitch is not the issue.

The Cobra is possible on these aircraft. This much is evident because the aircraft naturally departs in pitch vector when AoA overshoots occur. With correct ordnance and weight loading, center of gravity & pitch moment is sufficient for recovery. The math to determine this is there and has been provided for you.

@Panther2995

dont come here and waste my time.

You are wasting your own time. No one here is coming to you with the goal of convincing you of anything. We are simply stating what is already known and accepted. If you wished to assist in forming some sort of report you could always reference some source material that provides necessary datapoints for in-game testing… or could simply assist with the testing. Instead you want to complain about “Don’t waste my time”… ???

Feel free to avoid the forum if you want to better utilize your time I guess.

[Panther2995]

@MiG_23M

The F-16 cannot properly “Cobra” without the mounted ordnance, but of course no one is going to disable the computer to try this. There only needs to be sufficient pitch rate and elevator authority must be enough to recover. F-16 lacked in one of those areas until the introduction of the IAHT.

The math to determine if Cobra is possible is simple, is pitch rate sufficient enough for AoA overshoots > 60 degrees? Yes? Then the pitch is not the issue.

Is the elevator control sufficient to put nose down and allow recovery at pitch overshoots > 90 degrees? Yes? Then pitch is not the issue.

The Cobra is possible on these aircraft. This much is evident because the aircraft naturally departs in pitch vector when AoA overshoots occur. With correct ordnance and weight loading, center of gravity & pitch moment is sufficient for recovery. The math to determine this is there and has been provided for you.

Aside from Vista model (which is a experimental version) no production variant of F-16 is capable of doing Cobra, FCS simply doesnt allow you to do that and you cant just simply override it, another waste of time.

@MiG_23M

You are wasting your own time. No one here is coming to you with the goal of convincing you of anything. We are simply stating what is already known and accepted. If you wished to assist in forming some sort of report you could always reference some source material that provides necessary datapoints for in-game testing… or could simply assist with the testing. Instead you want to complain about “Don’t waste my time”… ???

Feel free to avoid the forum if you want to better utilize your time I guess.

Is this a fancy way of saying you also dont have any concrete evidence that shows Su-27 is capable of doing Cobra with full loadout i guess, thanks for proving what i already know.

Im tired of meaningless conversations with you, all you’re doing simply throwing baits.

Also i prefer to avoid you and BCRF because you two are the only ones who’s wasting my time in this forum, feel free to reply me when you get something that is useful.

Until then, dont bother me.