Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection (Part 1)

[Ziggy1989]

@Celestia

P.S.

If I was born in America I would have 800k in debt for medical bills or be dying.

If I was born in Russia, I would just be dead.

I am going to take back my intelligent compliment if you keep acting up.

800k of debt? You know health care & dental is free right? Its not paid by the federal government. Its paid depending on state government. We are of a United States.

Why would you in Russia more than anywhere else?

This is that propaganda thing I was warning folks about.

@Celestia

But yay, you guys 5th gen supermanuverable aircraft that can be defeated by a $200 drone.

Its sounds like we have just uncovered a personal animosity toward the RuF…

care to elaborate?

@Celestia

This is my last reply as we are massively off topic at this point.

Ok. It was fun talking about design, development & production etc. with you.

Later.

[wasa850]

@BBCRF

Because there was one chief designer in Sukhoi.Who saw that the SU-27 had a very small advantage over the F-15 and left the conduct of the BFM to light fighters. However, then Simonov came and said that the heavy aircraft should also be driven by the BFM

Interesting, originally the Su 27 was not supposed to be good in manoeuvre fights, then the Ogival wing makes sense

[BBCRF]

Yes, he was supposed to shoot missiles and go home

[MiG_23M]

@Ziggy1989

Yes, the WS-15 is equipped with thrust vectoring.

You have more than hearsay that the J-20B specifically is supermaneuverable and has equipped TVC engines?

@Ziggy1989

He believes Chinese people are liars, its government & the many western sources who confirm the J-20B.

I said nothing of the Chinese people

@Ziggy1989

Go away you troll.

Words to live by

[Ziggy1989]

@MiG_23M

I said nothing of the Chinese people

I asked if the Chinese are lying you said yes. But intentionally took out Chinese in my quote to make your claim seem less absurd.

@MiG_23M

Words to live by

I am the one having conversations & asked questions nonstop. You exist on the forum entirely to reply to my post & follow me to every topic. You are no more than my pet follower, remember that.

[wasa850]

Does the Su 27 have any significant durability issues with vertical surfaces ? Are they not stressed in maneuvering by vibration, buffeting etc ?

[BBCRF]

I’ve never heard of it. But there were problems when releasing the airbrake. Therefore, its speed was limited to 0.9M.The flow from the air brake destroyed the vertical surfaces

[BBCRF]

There was such a thing in the history of the Su-27

[BBCRF]

@wasa850

It was supposed to be a MiG-29

[Ziggy1989]

@wasa850

Interesting, originally the Su 27 was not supposed to be good in manoeuvre fights, then the Ogival wing makes sense

Well, the broad wings would indicate it is a high lift & maneuverable imo. The again that is the same mistake assessment made in analyzing the Mig-25 that the Americans did.

I figure its maneuverability was aimed for higher transonic & supersonic regimes like the F-15.

Btw, it just me or does anyone else think the prototype look insanely cool? It also reminds me of the Su-57 a little.

[MiG_23M]

@Ziggy1989

I asked if the Chinese are lying you said yes. But intentionally took out Chinese in my quote to make your claim seem less absurd.

I said nothing of the Chinese people.

@Ziggy1989

I am the one having conversations & asked questions nonstop. You exist on the forum entirely to reply to my post & follow me to every topic. You are no more than my pet follower, remember that.

You wanted to make it seem like I was claiming Chinese people are liars and then call me a pet, curious

@Ziggy1989

Well, the broad wings would indicate it is a high lift & maneuverable imo.

… Anything with broad wings is high lift & maneuverable?

@Ziggy1989

I figure its maneuverability was aimed for higher transonic & supersonic regimes like the F-15.

Is that where it was optimized?

@Ziggy1989

It also reminds me of the Su-57 a little.

How strange

[Ziggy1989]

@MiG_23M

… Anything with broad wings is high lift & maneuverable?

The reading comprehension of a 6th grader…

You continue to prove this.

Reread what I said, carefully.

@MiG_23M

How strange

It is strange that a grown man whose entire existence on the forum is to follow me around in every topic & must reply to every one of my posts.

Some people would call that obsessed & creepy.
I bet you log in & the first thing you do is go straight to my profile activity huh?

[wasa850]

@Ziggy1989

Well, the broad wings would indicate it is a high lift & maneuverable imo. The again that is the same mistake assessment made in analyzing the Mig-25 that the Americans did.

Very reminiscent of the NA-335, which was North American’s prototype for the FX (F-15). The NA-335 was intended to be highly maneuverable and was highly praised in the design evaluations for its use of a wing. Maybe the engineers at the time thought the Ogival wing was good at maneuvering.
The Sukhoi T-10 has a similar wing, but it did not work well. Above 10 AoA there is a strong buffet.

[BBCRF]

- YouTube

[Ziggy1989]

@wasa850

Very reminiscent of the NA-335

Reminiscent? It looks like Sukhoi worked on the project too! I am just not feeling the single vertical stab.

[ZVO_12_INCH]

Soviet intelligence had its own people in the North American company…Another similar one…

Spoiler

[Ziggy1989]

@ZVO_12_INCH

Soviet intelligence had its own people in the North American company…

They sure did! We need this Mig. But it did not hold weapons iirc? Correct?

@ZVO_12_INCH

[ZVO_12_INCH]

Уголок неба ¦ Микоян, Гуревич Е-8 (airwar.ru)

[Ziggy1989]

Supermaneuvrability is Useless (Take #1)

No kill is an easy kill against an experienced Flanker.

First game of the day, warming up & I was caught slipping with full fuel & rack of R-27ERs by a M2k 5F who started off with an energy advantage & at my 6 o’clock.
(Was not able to drop the ERs as I was scanning for additional opponents coming in as this dude was chasing me.)

Thought it was a funny engagement, enjoy.

Opponent’s PoV.

Supermaneuvrability is Useless (Take #1) - Opponent's PoV

[wasa850]

Interesting, that similarity never occurred to me.
I know the ws-300, the resemblance to the MiG 25 is great. I was giving the WS-300 as an example that the F-15 is not a copy of the MiG 25.
At the time, North American was one of the top aircraft manufacturing companies.