American F-15Es literally uses the -229? Anyways, diverting from the topic at hand.
Su-30SM is correct in it using the original AL31 as it was the original engine that it came with. Su-30SM2 is the only 30SM variant to have used the AL-41 engines… Now I won’t sit here and waddle on about how previous Soviet vehicle(s) have been a mix of 1 or more variants of the same jet, but there are very clear differences between the Su-30SM (the one in-game) and the upgraded Su-30SM2 variant.
There’s nothing wrong with the Su-30SM: very, VERY good radar, 12-14 missiles, thrust vectoring. The engines are weak which is to be expected, if Gaijin decides to do a switcheroo and “how’d that get there? 😅” there way into giving the Su-30SM AL-41s, then I’ll 🤐.
It’s already been proven they are only marginally better than the r-77. So still one of the worst fox3s, not even close to one of the best. Unless the target is AFK and you have gotten your lug of an airplane up to max speed at altitude without being shot at.
Gaijin, since at least F-16, have consistently delivered underpowered and sub-par vehicles for Soviet top tier aviation (where air rb is concerned)
I’m sure Smin will turn up to disingenuously explain how Su-30SM is good actually because it has a few more missiles and the radar actually works for once. (the same goes for F/A-18C late, which shouldn’t be 14.0 just because it carries a few more AIM-120, which it similarly doesn’t have the flight performance to take advantage of.)
Neither of these matter when Rafale, Eurofighter and F-15E are so overwhelmingly superior in terms of flight performance.
Sure, Sweden is stuck with the Gripen and Japan is stuck with the F-15JM, for now, but this doesn’t explain how mysteriously Soviet and Chinese aircraft seem to be almost designed to be off-meta and weak. This includes giving the planes more missiles to avoid giving them a competitive BR etc.
It would be a dream come true if the MiG-29 and Su-27 derivatives were given flight performance in accordance with reality rather than this farcical crippled performance.
Al-41 would be at least a small mea culpa for 2 years or so of this nonsense.
Also J-11B could be given a real radar, proper Pl-8B. Not sure what else could be done for it.
Mig-29SMT currently being under-BR’d.
Su-30SM coming out as an excellent 14.0.
The fact your post implies the F-15E is superior to the F-15E in flight performance is funny, cause there’s already been testing proving that F-15E/C and Su-30SM are all rather equal to each other. C has the best out of the 3, but it’s marginal.
Su-30SM/F-15 are not superior in flight performance to themselves, and they are equal to each other from the hands-on testing done.
“Japan is stuck with their F-15E equivalent aircraft.” Yeah, and it’s OP and meta because it’s 13.7 instead of with its equals.
Su-30SM will not suffer.
F-15E has the “worst” flight performance on live server because of its increased mass over F-15C, and it’s still great.
Su-30SM will be the same.
This is only true if everything proximal was severely decompressed. Otherwise this is extremely false.
Your testing methodology is extremely distorted and doesn’t produce relevant data.
Experienced and competent players will unanimously agree from their experience and from reliable tools like Statshark, that F-15E has huge performance advantages over F-15C.
This has been proven to you time and time again, yet you ignore it and continue to insist on counterfactual falsehoods.
There can be no fruitful discussion until you acknowledge this reality.
Mig-29SMT is mediocre at best with one of the worst FMs in its BR range, and its rather good radar doesnt save the R-77 from being the 2nd or even worst fox3 ingame
So a flight model equal to F-15E/C is “one of the worst”… good to know.
@Tristacomand
Prove that NATO and Statshark are distorted in their testing.
F-15E has a worst sustained turn rate, and worse instantaneous turn rate, to F-15C. F-15E is F-104S and F-15C is F-4E.
The fact your post calls facts “falsehoods” is proof enough.
I hope one day you acknowledge reality like the rest of us.
Keep claiming that Statshark, NATO, and countless other experts are wrong…
Oh, BTW Statshark can’t do a perfect comparison with F-15E & F-15C cause you can’t plug in extra drag from weapons and fuel tanks.
And despite those flaws F-15C pulls ahead in STR clean with fuel equalized.
I did not mention them? I spoke of good and experienced players.
This is bold to remark, considering you are famous for being disagreed with. Possibly the most contentious person on the forum. Really bizarre to appeal to being agreed with.
@Tristacomand
So me constantly agreeing with and repeating the facts hundreds of experts say means we disagree?
People have rarely disagreed with my takes, cause I’ve only ever spoken when I have the facts in line. I’ve mistyped which caused countless misunderstandings though.
It also helps that almost all of my takes are popular; Such as targeted decompression, balance, etc.
I am one of the good players, not according to me but according to the game and third party systems.
I use the standard NATO testing for my testing of ALL aircraft, AS WELL AS player preferred fuel loads taken into account for useful information.
Oh, look when both have 10 minutes of fuel loaded the F-15C/JM still pulls ahead of F-15E in flight performance.
Acceleration isn’t everything, otherwise F-104S would be a higher BR than F-4E.
And yes, I know energy retention isn’t everything.
The balance of everything is acceleration, STR/energy retention, radar, weapons, countermeasures, and maybe one more thing I’m forgetting.
If STR is better than acceleration, that’s an equalizer.
If weapons are better than radar, that’s an equalizer.
This Reddit graph mean nothing, real gameplay says otherwise, F15E has an artificial FM in game, it’s possible to catch it in a straight flight.
No one here’s fall from you fallacies anymore, Gaijin already knew that you and some “very vocal” users on this Forum are raiding this forum every god damn update to nerf any soviet plane that gaijin releases.
Like i’ve said to a fella of yours few days ago, you are just a regular user like me and everyone else.
After flying the Su-30 on dev after its FM changes, I do not think that the upgraded engines are needed anymore
The aircraft can compete just fine in BVR and despite still struggling in dogfights it can hold its own
@MagicUnicorn
So because the F-15E’s flight model is worse that makes it artificial?
Also my bug reports that would buff Soviet aircraft means we’re wanting to nerf them? lol
Keep claiming everyone’s out to get you…
@Tristacomand he claims to know us. That true or he talking from fiction?
From the testing I’ve done, Su-30SM is going to be a competitive if not outright meta 14.0.
No, it will not go mach 2.4. No it will not accelerate faster than an F-15 or Rafale.
It will however still get to its high top speed at low altitude, and equip 8+ AMRAHMs using among the best radars on a jet.
if you guys really think about it, the su30sm is 100% based on the su30mki (the indian one) with only avionics modifications (not relevant for war thunder), so basically we have a 2002 plane fighting against 2019 rafales :D
imo we should have the su30sm2 for this update, not the base su30sm
(no, i don’t want r37m in wt rn)
I don’t know what you mean by that, the r37m is not necessary at all and would break the game if added right now
my main point was that the su30sm is basically a 2002 plane fighting against 2019 rafales
and since su30sm2 is the one with AL-41 engines and new radar (also lighter radar compared to bars on the base su30sm), why not add this one?
So the F-104S should be 11.7 with no weapons change just cause it’s faster?
Air RB cares about overall speed [not acceleration] and energy retention more than most other data points of flight performance.
The Su-30SM flight performance [not acceleration] is similar to the F-15s, which is why I brought up the F-15s to begin with.
It’s why I rarely mention ITR [which F-15E is the worst at], or low-speed capability which only really matters in custom battles.
It isn’t a BVR plane. I am specifically discussing BVR planes in BVR context. Please respect the context.
This is uncontrovertial. We agree here.
I brought it up because I’m comparing Su-30SM to the best BVR planes in the meta. They all have tons of thrust and generally have good flight models.
Su-30SM with AL-41F would fit this.
Su-30SM with AL-31FP does not.
We clearly can’t come to an agreement or really discuss this.
It is my evaluation that Su-27 variants are inferior and require deep flight model reworks, if not game engine improvements with regards to realism of flight models.
Hence I advocate the better engine, flight model rework & buffs and engine improvements.
Let us get back strictly on topic for if we believe the plane should receive the engine and why.
Since the main decider in top tier is the initial and secondary BVR engagement, I find the most important flight performance factors to be speed and acceleration as well as energy retention in order to get to a notch and turn cold.
We all agree the f-15e has the most meta defining flight performance of all 14.0 aircraft, speed and acceleration, so I find it pretty intentionally misleading to say it has bad flight performance.
So why mention the following or even argue that the SU30sm is similar in nature?
But I don’t disagree that I believe the SU30sm will likely be fine as is, however I also don’t believe giving it improved engines that are currently being installed to its airframe IRL would make it OP.
My main point in this post is pointing out youre BSing us a little, and just not doing the best job of making your point: it’s not so different that it can’t compete.
