Wait which one?
I would really like to see this tank in game but i am quite sceptical about the fire rate. Since the turret was never built we cant tell if was possible or not but considering that Surbaissé which very similar in this aspect was able to achieve “only” 10 rpm i am really doubtful that they could such fire rate.
There are no documents of the construction of said autoloader but the blueprints were all done. I also doubt the designers would lie about the performance of the autoloader since it was not a competitive scene. Bofors was the only manufacturer of cannons for armored vehicles in sweden at the time.
Another note is that it was bofors who designed the autoloader for the SAV 20.12.48 as well as the m/42 Delat Torn so they did have a lot of experience with autoloaders.
Though most likely, 30rpm is absolute best case scenario and a rate of more like 20rpm or 25 is probably to be expected.
Well, the Bkan 1c, developed from the AKV 151, which was a KRV hull modified to fit a 155mm artillery cannon can do 1 round every 3.2 seconds.
Strv.103 which used KRV hulls for testing cannon concepts managed to reload in 3-4 seconds.
If the AKV 151 autoloader is inspired by what was planned for KRV, then similar reload rates are probably plausible. Then again that type of autoloader might not be suitable for a tank given idk if you can select ammo from it.
Edit:
Personally i believe the Krv S-tank hull aiming testing vehicles would be way easier to add into the game.
Makes for a more unique vehicle.
“There are no documents of the construction of said autoloader but the blueprints were all done. I also doubt the designers would lie about the performance of the autoloader since it was not a competitive scene. Bofors was the only manufacturer of cannons for armored vehicles in sweden at the time.”
Neither i believe they would lie more like misjudge the ability of their system. Also as you said it just might have been the “teoretical” maximum for very few rounds with high chance of malfunction.
"Another note is that it was bofors who designed the autoloader for the SAV 20.12.48 as well as the m/42 Delat Torn so they did have a lot of experience with autoloaders.
Though most likely, 30rpm is absolute best case scenario and a rate of more like 20rpm or 25 is probably to be expected"
I know but those systems work quite different and imo cant really be compared to KRV. SAV 20.12.48 has low volocity gun with clip style autoloader alonside the fact it has a lot of room and it is fixed in a place in the hull. Foch was also able to achieve higher fire rate than Surbaissé due to these factors. Delat torn on the other hand uses more of an assisted autolader with a need for human loader to oparate it afaik. And again it is complitely different system i wouldn’t compare them.
Yeah i mean if it was added with such fire rate it would probably end up around 8.0-8.3. So imo even 15 rpm would be more than enough while it would also keep it at lower BR.
Yeah but those systems work quite differently. AKV 151 is not limited by the space of the turret since the arm is outside of the turret and the overall system is quite different.
Strv 103 uses fixed cannon in hull that with only 105mm and yet can achieve “only” 15rpm. I dont know i just strugle to believe they could get it that high since it wasn’t tested.
Counter point, the Bkan 1C, a 155mm autoloaded sph, has a reload of 3.2 seconds and was developed not long after the Kranvagn project and thus likely used auto-loader developments that would have been used by the Kranvagn.
I’m going to be honest, I have no way to prove this, but it makes sense to me.
Edits: I have read your points and they make sense to me, plus would be a good balancing factor if I’m going to be honest.
Edit Again: After taking looks at the drawn designs/blueprints of it, it appears it would in fact just shove the shell into the breech from the ready rack due to the design of the Turret, and the placement of the the gun and ready rack.
The what? The “Foch” never had an autoloader.
Discussing the vehicle is fine but keep it on topic. The KRV also follows the rules as a partially built prototype, no “And” involved in the rule for that.
Ze mods have spoken, bring it in boys +1
I guess I’ll submit the P.1000 Ratte then
What constitutes an (unfinished) prototype:
- Vehicle was (partially) constructed
- Vehicle-specific parts (i.e. guns, powerplants, etc.) were built
So the Coelian is back on the menu?
depends, was any of the parts built specifically for the Ratte?
everything I can see is that most of the components were taken from off the shelf designs for other vehicles, the Guns from the Scharnhorst class, the engine from U-Boats and there is no primary sources to even suggest that it made it past a drawing stage, let alone into the stage of an unfinished prototype
Based on how i’m understanding it, probably not
I’m guessing the keyword here is “Vehicle-specific parts” since i don’t think a single part was created for the Coelian, it’s a no go
Hull of the Coelian obviously existed but thats a part meant for a different tank and was not specifically constructed for the Coelian and therefor might not be included
Menawhile the Hull for the KRV was specifically built to become a heavy tank
If they they allowed stuff that technically already had parts avaliable, than you’d get a lot of blueprint tanks that never even got past mockup
Take the Strv 2000 140/40 for example
Green is existing parts that they could just slap on
Blue is existing parts that would need too be modified
Red is none-existing parts that would have needed too be built
So the most important part here is red for it to be added for consideration but no amount of green and probably blue would let it be added
The cannons and shells also existed tho? That’s already more than what the KRV has…
Blue is existing parts that would need too be modified
Can you show me a picture of the cannon or ammunition? (for the Strv 2000)
Can’t really find out what the cannon is from, I see some mentions of it being domestic, some that it might have been the german 140mm
There was a mention of the 140mm pros and cons
“25% to 50% better armor penetration (up to 800 mm/2ft7 of penetration) and twice the muzzle energy of the 120 mm cannon. However, it also came at a cost. First of all, the 140 mm rounds were very large, so fewer of them could be carried and an autoloader was essential.”
So unsure if this means they actually had a 140mm that they tested, got the results from somewhere else or possibly just did some math
i’ll look around for a bit and see if i can figure it out
The Strv or the Coelian?
If we are talking Strv, even if the cannon did exist, it would have just been modified of an existing one and not considered vehicle-specific-part i’d think
Ughhhh i soo want the strv 2000. WHYY DID WE RUN OUT OF MONEY
The Coelian, it uses the same cannon as the Ostwind 2
As for the Strv (or KRV as I’m not sure which one we are talking about right now), the 140mm is definitely a vehicle specific part (and so is the 150mm for the Krv)
Besides costs, there was also the matter of time and possibly politics
First you might need a new factory (probably multiple) built which would take a while, after which you’d need to build the tanks themselves which would take even more time depending on how many we’d want
Obviously starting off with the prototype which would probably require a few redesigns as we went along and noticed something was bad or just not needed which would cost even more and require more time
And this is all while we are using older tanks that would eventually become obsolete against other tanks of the time so we’d be lagging behind other countries that might pose a threat to Sweden
So instead buying foreign design that was actually built and ready + good was just cheaper and faster
It also has the added benefit of possibly improving military cooperation between countries