Should British 57-76mm cannons be given applicable SAP/APHE for balance reasons?

Yes. The 57 and 75mm ones should definately have APHE!

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Thats a little harsh. Id fully argue british tanks are in the same boat

Many of those tanks you listed have BRs thatre too high in general, and should already have lower BRs with the stats they currently have.

Wikipedia has a record of lying. Not necessarily a reliable source especially when it comes down to munitions.

To an extent, yes, I agree many of those machines should be at lower BRs regardless. All of them (and many, many more) are at very strange BRs due to 1) ammo penetrating too much armor or too little 2) ammo postpen being excessively strong or weak or 3) those same two points with what they fight making them more often than not unable to do their intended jobs.

APHE is too strong in postpen for sizes below 120mm caliber, massive bug reports on old forum attest to this. Solid AP is too weak in postpen below the same size, especially if it doesn’t have >100mm excess pen vs what its punching through. APCR universally across the board pens far too little and its postpen, though better than a few years ago, is still atrocious. APDS pens more or less what it is supposed to, but the postpen of 1st-gen rounds is bad to awful depending on the gun. HEAT & HEATFS have atrociously bad postpen. HESH’s armor-piercing component of its pen (not the overpressure) does not spall nearly well enough. HE & HESH rounds are universally lacking the entire kinetic component of their armor penetration - 80-90% of their mass is shell casing and that doesn’t just vanish upon impact.

Then of course, barrel damage existing at all is downright obnoxious. Heavy armor is totally unable to use its intended strength when every single opponent can either ignore it or cripple your ability to shoot back.

I bring all that up because most of those machines are too frequently easily punched through by nearly everything, yet actually dying is another story. It’s not exactly entertaining playing barrel repair simulator, nor is it entertaining taking 5 shots to kill something but only one to be deleted in return. A Maus & IS-4M sit so high because they tend to soak damage, even though sitting there waiting for repairs is anything but satisfying.

With proper attention to ammo postpen, adding these rounds to the 6-pdr & QF 75 (and the enigmatic 12-pdr SAP for the 3" Gun Carrier if reliable documentation can be found on it, also because the first TOG used the same gun and we very well may get that in the future) would be totally unnecessary.

But copy-pasting two rounds is currently much easier than changing how all shells work.

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But is there any record contradicting what it says on the 57mm M1 being a license-built 6-pdr Mk V?

In the context no. But be wary of what you read on Wikipedia. Since for the Type-4 Chi-To or Chi-Ri I/II tanks it claims there was a variant that had an 88mm cannon or something close to it yet there are no records of this being true.

I agree eith absolutely everything you say, although I do still believe the british would be fine to get better ammo, even if they reworked everything

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Barrel damage can exist, but historical sight placement (IE: not stuffing your face down the gun-tube with a scope taped to it) should be forced for RB. The ability to use secondary optics (ones closer to the gun) should also probably be a thing.

Either that, or just hard code barrels to repair very fast. Maybe even delete muzzle brakes from damage models, since they’re usually just a liability for in-game purposes.


If my barrel cannot be blown out by the very guy I’m aiming at, fine by me. If I’m poking it around a corner (or through a wall) and someone shoots a hole through it, that is my own damn fault.

And I would gladly support forced use of real gunner sight positions for tanks. It would not only make barrel-tapping less obnoxious, but it would also force intelligent bush placement on machines.

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Britain shouldn’t get such rounds but rather have AP fixed, or like some very old users say, revert the nerfs.

As for people who say they are fine, trust me, they don’t play Britain as their main nation nor ever want to.
They shield themselves with “Just Aim Better” when in-fact the AP rounds are under performing, there’s evidence here in the forums.

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At this point, unless APHE is nerfed to historical levels, merely undoing the AP nerfs will not be sufficient.

The US 57 is still a 6-pounder, hence there is a technical basis for the gun getting M86 to level the playing field. The British 75 was specifically engineered to fire all types of US ammunition, and did shoot M61 APHE before US shell quality problems the game does not even have caused them to go through the extra effort of removing filler from the rounds they received.

Several other tanks already have rounds they would have used in service but were never issued, and some even get rounds they could fire but could not fit in their ammo racks (M48A2GA2) or are artificially made to fit more rounds inside than they actually had (Pakwagen).

For the sake of gameplay first, and history second, the guns deserve those shells whether AP gets rightfully un-nerfed or not.


Yeah, and give the UK the Sherman V. The Brits did take delivery of over 95% of them, after all.


The QF75 should absolutely get M61 APHE as there’s plenty of historical evidence of the British using it. It’s been bug reported several times. There’s less evidence of M86 being used by the British, it did happen but far rarer.

That being said:

  • AP spall needs to be slightly increased.
  • APHE needs to be massively nerfed. No more sphere, damage is a cone roughly 25-33% better than solid shot of similar calibre. Percentage is dependent largely on volume of filler.
  • APDS needs to shatter less and needs spall to be slightly increased.

Apds needs no shatter at all unless they are going to give it to aphe

Spicy claims that will likely won’t be heard by the devs unfortunately.

Yeah. It’s amazing how they want that level of realism, yet don’t want any with the Panther.

APDS getting shatters but APHE not getting fuse failures or shatters is just awful.

If APHE worked IRL like how it does in game, we’d have tanks firing APHE-FSDS.


Don’t some rounds of this type already exist ingame, like the Stormer HVM’s three projectiles, and the FAPDS rounds on one of the IFV autocannons? As well as the memed-about PCB round (the latin name of the shell people misinterpret) for the Arjun MBT we’ll eventually see ingame.

Ah, the CUM blast ammo xd.