Two fighter pilots discussed it in a vod or something
They started side by side and Rafale sat behind the F-22 for a hot minute
Two US pilots (former F-16 and 18) evaluated the Rafale footage. Both agreed that the F-22 and Rafale started side by side, and that the F-22 was clean (no drop tanks). The engagement was equal.
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Alright, so the Raptor has been beat once in equal contest.
BTW, Gonky and Mover clearly state there is probably more to the story, but ok, you provided an example. Kudos.
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Id argue it starting WVR is gimping the F22 quite heavily, as its biggest advantage its stealth is voided
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That’s fine but the myth that it is unbeatable in WVR should die off.
Stealth and BVR are its advantages yes. It’s not built to dogfight, I don’t know why people think it is suddenly going to becoming an absolute monster in WVR just because it has thrust vectoring capabilities. That only becomes a factor in slow speeds, and if we are talking dogfights with a euro-canard fighter, the fight isn’t going to get slow. The F-22 weighs nearly twice as much as the Eurofighter IIRC.
Yeah i mean it dominates BVR so hard due to its stealth it can basically just avoid WVR in any real scenario
Maybe stop talking about the F-22 in a Gripen thread?
aye, not disagreeing there. Gripen would have that irl. currently, we don’t have that. the best SARH Gripen can field in WT is Skyflash, which as far as i’m concerned can currently get about 5kms on launch in a headon shot.
AIM-7F and M as far as I know are effective at 8km and above,
No idea for R-27. Which is why I wouldnt like to take one on unless i could be reasonably sure i’ll make it to the merge.
Contradictory statement of the year
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R-27 is capable. It’s not as long ranged as the 7F/M, but I believe it is still competitive because of the IOG and DL.
27ER shouldn’t have been in the game until the su27 or SMT was added, imo.
With all due respect you’ve literally said your validation for your aerodynamics knowledge is you play WT 😂
Christ are we all that desperate to win “most bonkers forum user of the year” awards
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Oh? What was contradictory about it? Please enlighten me - your wordsmith skills are legendary.
You said the fight wouldn’t get slow because they were fighting Eurocanards.
If it doesn’t, both lose. This is already a thing in war thunder, watch two Gripens’ stay fast in the merge and launch AIM-9M at each other for mutual kills lol
Now apply HOBS, TVC, 60+G missiles with superior IRCCM
Name of the game is jam the WEZ, can’t do that fast. TVC tends to win these kinds of fights.
It’s also funny because Deltas and retaining speed isn’t possible in one circle centric environments.
In a higher speed dogfight the Eurofighter would be able to completely outmanoeuvre the F-22. The thrust vectoring would be completely irrelevant at higher speeds, and the F-22 wouldn’t be able to match the Typhoons rate or energy retention.
You mention HOBS capability, but the F-22 doesn’t have HMD to maximally utilise that - it can’t go for over the shoulder shots. The Typhoon does have HMD and has the capability to fire ASRAAMs over the shoulder.
No…quite the opposite actually. The only time fights occur at the speed TVC is relevant is by staged exercise when both jets are already slow.
It’s more the fact that the Typhoon has far better wing-loading than the F-22…
According to which official flight manuel?
Cause last time i checked F-22’s true flight performance was still classified.
Completely pointless if the F-22 just gets slow prior to the merge and points his nose within 90 degrees of the target. The AESA is perfectly capable of finding the target and tracking it without a HMD necessary. We’re no longer at a point where the radar is limited to just a vertical scan for ACM.
You mean the ones where the F-22 LOST? No. TVC is actually a much more efficient method of combat, allowing the full use of supermaneuverable maneuvers shown by TsAGI. It allows the F-22 first shot first kill capability where the Eurofighter would still be waiting for the water to boil.
Mirage 2000 is better than F-16A but surely the F-16 wouldn’t completely stomp it into the ground in the video game? Right?? ;)
nice gripen convo right there :D
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İ was quite surprised when i saw the thread tbh xD.
F-22 will lose in dogfight at SAAF JAS39C topic