SAAF JAS-39C Technical Data and Discussion

[Ziggy1989]

hmmm… I will contemplate more on this. I really do not want to start researching a freaking engine right now.

When there are actual models that are suffering and can be brought up first. Before we start picking apart the Gripen.
(F-15 and Su27 radar)

Do you not see the logic in this? IMPROVE the models we all as a community know and agree are underperforming first. Then assess the situation regarding those that may be overperforming.

Not just obsess over the smallest deviations of an engine in hopes of nerfing the one good aircraft. OBVIOUSLY there is a biased attempt to nerf the Gripen. The developers literally told @MiG_23M to chill with the canard reports, god damn.

No, he is tweaking over the engines. These are not bugs. These are attempted nerfs to the model straight up.

[Markus752]

Well I am sorry, but I can’t just conjure up data on any plane you think needs a buff or is suffering. If data is available for a plane it should be reported no matter the current situation of the vehicle.

[Ziggy1989]

Aim-54, Awg9, Aim7M, F-16 ACM range. Su27 & F15 radar etc.

Do you need more conjuring?

Sparrows (western SARHS) detonation after signal loss, Sparrow control fin reset after control loss?

I am pretty good at conjuring up actual underperforming weapon systems.

[Markus752]

? I don’t think you understand what I meant.

Do you have any sources to get those fixed? Then report them. If not, then why are you even mentioning them?

EDIT: I didn’t mean conjuring up the underperforming planes or weapons… I meant the sources needed to fix that…

[Ziggy1989]

All of these items can be improved before nerfing the Gripen FM that will reduce its in game efficiency.

But since it’s the low hanging fruit, these want to be Junior Game Developers are gunning for it.

@Markus752

EDIT: I didn’t mean conjuring up the underperforming planes or weapons… I meant the sources needed to fix that…

All the sources exist and are well known. Again, but those platforms and weapons systems are not center stage and in the spotlight. The Gripen is.

Again, like I said this crusade against the Gripen is purely for personal satisfaction on behalf of Junior Game Developers such as @MiG_23M

[Markus752]

And HOW!?

You STILL don’t understand the issue…

For the Gripen there is AVAILABLE material to report.
If you have ANYTHING that helps fix the mentioned issues then REPORT them.

There is no “This should be fixed before that”. Report anything as soon as you have anything to report and voila, everything is at least given in for consideration.

You make it seem like they should ignore bug reports because other vehicles are doing worse.

Then why don’t we simply stop reporting anything? Because everyone will have a different list of priorities for themselves.

I couldn’t care less about fixing the ACM range or the Su-27 or F-15’s radar. I don’t own either of those plane and the ACM mode I rarely use. To each their own.

If the sources exist and well known, and go and fetch them and report the problems, if the problems are reported, then we have nothing else to do other than wait. Even the reports for the Gripen can be acknowledged and then be ignored for a year. Nobody knows.

And of course you bring in MiG-23 again, since he was clearly a participant in this converstion so you needed to add a little salt towards him. That’s honestly simply sad. Let it go.

[Markus752]

Me pissing you off is on you. You are just not able to keep it calm and on topic.

They have stated nowhere that they are changing anything because of efficiency. Apparently noone here is able to read properly…

The flight model was revised because it was utterly broken. Now they need to wait and see if the Gripen performs in line with the others at 12.3BR because the statistics up until now include the FM before they updated it.

They won’t artifically lower the performance of the FM, they might remove the AIM-9M and replace it with something else (I am not sure if the Gripen ever used the M I think it used a different version), or it will give opponents a better way of dealing with the Gripen.

Just like they added the ER missile to the Russian planes. Nowhere do they state that they plan on changing the FM again for EFFICIENCY reasons.

You only read what you want to read and ignore the actual information…

[Ziggy1989]

The controversy surrounding the Gripen is based entirely on in-game efficiency.

The community is not begging for nerfs like @DracoMindC, @MiG_23M and you. They are simply requesting for increase of BR.

GJ said, NO. But instead altered the FM of the Gripen. They further add they will continue to monitor it.

Instead of seeking further nerfs to score brownie points with devs…

Junior Game Developers can focus entirely on improving the models that need buffs (Aim-54, F-14’s Awg9, Aim7M, F-16 ACM range. Su27 & F15 radar etc.) and raise the in-game efficiency of those aircraft.

As result the BR can actually be increased to 12.7 & no one needs to be further nerfed.

[Firestarter]

@Ziggy1989

As result the BR can actually be increased to 12.7 & no one needs to be further nerfed.

Which would’ve been the sensible option from the get go because I really, really don’t want to have to fight F-15s and Su-27s and Gripens in my Phantom with knockoff AIM-7E-2s.

[Ziggy1989]

Yes!

[Markus752]

And now we get to tell you that you are wrong… again…

They didn’t alter the FM because of efficiency. They altered it because the update was rushed and it was plain wrong. It was beyond broken and the fact they fixed it that quickly only showed that they knew and still worked on it anyway. Now they want to wait and check if the ALREADY revised FM warrants the Gripen to end up at at either the 12.7BR, which they don’t really want at the moment, or the balance at top tier needs anything else, like added missiles for top tier. It could very well mean that the F-15 and others get the Aim-7MH for example.

I am also not for nerfing the plane but for buffing it, but again, you only see what you want.

I want the thrust CORRECTED so the DRAG can be reduced from it’s insanely high value. The corrected engine will also increase low speed acceleration and thrust but whatever, you don’t care I know.

A BR increase doesn’t matter. Sure we can simply add 10KN of thrust to the Su-27 out of nowhere and increase it’s BR by 0.3… Why not add the Meteor or Iris-T missile to the Gripen A and just up it in BR?

Because it is WRONG… It still needs to be fixed. Just because you yourself believe the Gripen is fine right now, doesn’t mean it is. And again. Everyone has differing priorities… You don’t seem to be interested that much in the Su-27 getting it’s correct Oswald number. That FM is also still a mess but whatever, right? A ton of planes need changes.

Leaving it in it’s current state is stupid. It’s not acting like the real thing in the slightest.

My car weighs 1300kg and has 110HP. The Gripen situation would mean it currently weighs 2600kg and makes 220HP.

Sure the overall performance in acceleration will be similair and might seem correct but i hope you can see that it clearly has side effects…

One example is that the Gripen loses WAY too much airspeed when going off afterburner. The Drag is way too high right now. It performs nowhere near it’s expected behaviour in other areas, but is approximately matching the acceleration results (Not even that by 16% but whatever)…

If the report goes through, the Gripen will accelerate quicker up until it’s maximum speed. I don’t see why you wouldn’t want that… I don’t think you really understand that report in it’s fullest.

[GungniR]

@MiG_23M

Now… let’s not pretend the Mirage 2000 didn’t dominate the Gripen for the majority of its’ life having helmet mounted displays, better dogfight missiles, fox-3s… entirely domestically designed and produced with little help from outside sources.

Yeah, stupid Swedes who didn’t do everything themselves! Having 16% of the population size of France is irrelevant, buying components is for losers. Get dominated, bro!

[Ziggy1989]

ily @Markus752

@Markus752

My car weighs 1300kg and has 110HP. The Gripen situation would mean it currently weighs 2600kg and makes 220HP.

Make sure you guys put this in the report.

[Markus752]

It’s making 35% more thrust but matches the speed and accleration. Please enlighten me how that is supposed to work in a physical enviroment without the other factors being severely off.

[DracoMindC]

hey anyone notice the gripen radar right now is just a copy pasted APG-68(v)5

[F0x_Hunter]

Sorry to interrupt your discussion… Do we have any news updates regarding the 39C cockpit? Or will GJ just leave cockpit-A?

P.S. Widescreen HUD with narrow image is starting to annoy me. It’s look like we still have invisible square inside any type of HUD and the size of HUD-glass don’t have a matter

Spoiler

And the real one

Spoiler

It looks like MUCH wider.

[oppsijustkilledu]

I figured something was fishy with it

[F0x_Hunter]

And I just now noticed that the IRL-HUD is slightly tinted, which obviously should help to better see the readings on the HUD glass.

[Faster_Boiiiii]

considering that gaijin has yet to fix the JA 37D’s cockpit, it’ll probably stay this way for some time

[Morvran]

Yeah, we are lucky the cockpit is as good as it is. Many aircraft lack even half the functionality of the Gripens cockpit