So the French M26 just has nothing to build a line-up with. You can either drag the 5.7 vehicles up to 6.7 and subsequently face 7.7, or you throw it in the 7.0 and let it get slaughtered by 8.0 tanks.
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I think i might have an attempt of an explanation for you:
Because as we all know how the mighty snail balances vehicles (Don’t look at its actual capabilities but some mysterious stats only they have so theres no point in trying to argue those):
STRV 103-C of all my vehicles in 7 Tech trees fully grinded and most vehicles spaded (at least all important mods if not fully) is (without checking in depth combination of WR% and stuff) considering K/D my best performing vehicle. How is that? It is extremely strong with dart, laserrangefinder and 4 second reload in certain positions being a static defensive sniper with one of the best armor layouts considering its angling at the br. If played right, close to impossible to kill from the front.
But that is- as i think most of us know the ONLY thing it is good at, which makes knowers of it play it ONLY in this fashion. Which is netting very good K/D ratios.
What the snail completely seems to ignore is, that it basically cant do anything else: Once you have to push or you have to move because cas is looking for you, it is over. You Can’t push due to whacky hull aim, you have a hard time of getting objectives, its close to impossible dealing with multiple enemies from different angles and you cant defend yourself from cas. So once the enemies know where you are (easy since theres usually 2 or maybe 3 good positions for it on any given map) and either manages to flank you, cas you or just ignore the angle you are holding you are useless or need to move/push.
Sure it can kill lots of enemies very quickly from one static position getting good K/D. Especially if the enemies fail to realize what’s going on and continue pushing your angle. But you can’t rush to a strong forward position early game to establish map control like a mobile light tank/medium tank with a turret can. You also can’t brawl in one of the city mazes which sometimes feel like 50% of the map pool (Or ofc you CAN, but you will have a much harder time doing it well than in a turreted tank and still have to rely on holding lines more than anthing). Actually winning the match aka capping and turning that into map control is the big problem. So as long as the only look at K/D which I suspect is going on, you can wait for it to go to 9.7. It’s strictly a camping/sniping tank that struggles big time to do anything else.
I just can’t understand why after so many years of this wacky way of balancing vehicles by br adjustments based on some unknown statistics they just cant include the opinions of some of the very good and experienced top players that also play competitively, some of which they already have connections to through the esports scene.
Wouldn’t it be awesome to have some of them to build a group of people (especially since most of them play all nations at all br’s and they do it competitively so they know the ups and downs of each vehicle) to double check the changes that their statistics seem to hint towards. Outliers like the STRV-103s, especially in combination with minor nations played by already more experienced players will just continue to prove such a trouble to balance like this. And everyone else that doesnt play as much or doesnt have enough experience constantly has to keep up to date as to which vehicle just got turned to being useless because of some statistic (or ai???) based balance attempt.
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I will face Leopards in an AMX-13 and I will be happy.
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What difference does it make that the Phantom and the F-15A have absolutely the same weapons, useless weapons. Only the Phantoms and Tornados have bombs and guided weapons, while the F-15A has nothing at all and what kind of MiG-21 is on 12.0?
Also i wouldn’t go as far as saying it is bad at its BR (otherwise you coulndt get these K/D ratios). It just excels at one thing in a way that no other vehicle in game can: Hulldown sniping showing only such a small and highly angeled part of the tank. I think it was fine where it was though admittedly and probably similar to 50% of all vehicles in war thunder, quite a bit of trouble in a full downtier.
When people need to push the angle you’re holding on a poststamp sized map with only one cap. Hell yeah to farming nukes due to war thunder map design letting you farm tanks (that often only have apds or aphe which is unable to pen your ufp, dont have a stabilizer and laserrangefinder while you have all of those, and a 4 second reload even with 1 crew!) from one position in a frontally nearly invincible tank because they got no choice but to push the angle you are holding if they can’t cas you.
Except the Su30 and Rafale are better because they have usable radar and better close range ARH
Great and it was a subsonic aircraft fighting f16s in air modes and it’s still nerfed to hell years later
But su30s can do more with less effort.
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We are also completely glazing over the fact now that 10.3 / 10.7 just became even more so compressed as all the players who use 13.0 CAS, are taking the 12.0 tanks away from those BR brackets.
The Su-30 is not a better CAP aircraft for GRB than the Typhoon. That’s just delusional.
What does that have to do with GRB?
It can’t do “more”. It can do “more” for the same amount of effort/skill. So can the Type 81 compared to the Tor, when given to the average player, yet you think balancing according to that is stupid (so do I). You’ve got to pick one consistent standard to judge vehicle performance.
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You do know the radar doesn’t work on the typhoon right?
It’s a buggy broken mess that doesn’t see targets and when it does,.it’s a chore to get the radar to track.
Because ground isn’t the only gamemode. There are air modes too and don’t really give a crap about ground. I want my aircraft to not be nerfed for air modes, but tanks take priority annoyingly
Spawn in, fire 6x kh38 and get 6 kills Vs fly low, find 1 target at a time, soma Brimstones at it, repeat a dozen times.
Yes this seems identical
Can one of you two tell me why both teh F15I and E are still 12.7? for GRB as cas? its absolutely abhorrant that EF2000, rafale, su30 etc all wetn to 13.0 but the F15E/I (CAS) craft did not.
and F-16s.
Thats easy, US mains are bad at the game.
Though
Why didnt the F-16C and especially F-15E/I move up, if anything they are more capable CAS than the Typhoon at the moment
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Ive asked a few questions iwth absolutely zero feedback.
Overall these BR changes are not thoughtout, at all.
They have systematically ruined 10.3, 10.7 and ofc 11.7, as now the USA teams have access to not only one but two great cas platforms at 12.7, while most trees at 11.7 dont even have a reliable CAP platform to fight against either of those.
WHile were at it the gripens should also move to 13.0 for CAS as they are insanely good platforms for it, sure they only get 4 missiles, but they are again great platforms.
Statistics are all fine and dandy to use as a metric for changing BRs.
But using EVERY PLAYERS combined statistics for any given vehicle is the wrong way to go about it.
This is why we see minor nations constantly getting vehicles being moved up over and over again. (inb4 we have Lorraine 40t at 12.0)
This makes them even less tempting for newer or just more casual players to play. Creating a loop of above average and dedicated players using them, thus making their statistics look comparatively better.
To balance a vehicle based on statistics, ONLY the top 1000 players for any given vehicle should be taken into consideration. This way we can see how good a vehicle actually is.
Using all players as a metric just leaves some vehicles at too low of a BR (new players, players who have paid their way to move up etc.) and then you see some above average, or amazing players absolutely wreak havoc in them.
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I agree that the current system has issues, but I disagree with your solution.
I think that the real solution is to consider all data, while adjusting for the average player skill of that vehicle.
If someone consistently earns 20% better than everyone else, then that persons stats should be 20% better in every vehicle. Then this would be done for every player. Another example; the average player of the Char25T preforms 50% better than the average WT player, yet the Char only has stats that indicate it’s 15% better on average. Gaijin might see that it needs to go up, yet the opposite is actually true.
I dunno. I tried to make a pretty fair list
The BT-7A(F32) among others were moved up, but still are rank II
The anti-Russian rhetoric is really showing… time to swap nations I guess.
How is this relevant per vehicle basis? If someone earns 20% more on average across all vehicles, than the casual player, he is then simply better overall. But if the better player has a ~50% WR in one vehicle, that vehicle is balanced. If he has a ~70% WR in another vehicle, there is a discrepancy, and that vehicle is clearly overperforming.
This is a fair point, but the performance of average vs. above average player in X vehicle doesn’t matter if all vehicles are balanced in the same manner, top 1000 players for every vehicle. Then other vehicles get increases in BR to the same level as the Char25T. And after a time, the Char25T might start showing lowered stats. Because better vehicles at lower BRs get moved to it’s level based on top 1000 performance. Thus the Char25T getting moved lower in time.
Some people got so used to ARB they forgot everything except how to blindly sling off ARHs at the closest radar contact, hoping the contact is overwhelmed by the furball.
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True and while I agree and think just considering the top whatever% or number of players might be a good or at least better approach (assuming the snail doesn’t already do something similar, which none of us knows which statistics or how they take them into consideration -
Which stats would you actually consider for BR balancing (K/D? - i just wrote down m thoughts about the strv103s which then might be complete outliers of the k/d they can achieve but only in very specific spots on the map while being ignored by cas and ppl not caring about their position trying to take them out again and again from the front. but when you also take kills per spawn or winrate into account it doesnt look that fancy anymore.
If you take Winrate into account that might be even worse cause that is influenced heavily by which nation at which br you’re playing, how good the teams at that br are and how good your crew/lineup is. Your vehicle can be craz good, if you play at a br like 9.3 that is ver often sucked into 10.0 and 10.3 premium brs in a nation with not that good players then you will struggle to achieve the same winrate like playing a nation with a very strong lineup (ground,air,spaa) that very good players tend to flock to.
So i think it would be very hard to actually get statistics that really show how strong a vehicle is. Like, compare it to the maus. Its strong yes, but only if clueless enemies continue running into you head on. If you need to win a match in a maus on a 3 cap map, gl tring to cap and hold 2 objectives while running from cas.
Super Etendard 11.0? How I am supposed to fight Pantsirs in this thing? It does not even have an afterburner… Sorry but that’s a joke, no line-up as well again and 2 times uptiered in a row…
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