100% and it just proves it was designed as a NATO nerf and Gaijin had no intention adding it to “Russian” tanks.
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This is very much the case.
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British Challengers don’t have a basket as far as pictures and info goes
Merkavas also do not have this, they have a separate system in the rear of the turret relating to this.
As far as I’m aware, tanks that got the basket have components physically within the basket that affects it’s operations if struck and damaged.
Some tanks have turret baskets but don’t contain modules that directly affect it’s operation in any way shape or form. The most they would do is just generate more spall.
Here is the Challengers turret lifted by the way
Here is the T90m turret being swapped
underside view with t-90m autoloader
Compared tot he design of the Leo 2a4s turret for example, everything is seated within the basket, with much more parts within
This is all by design and shouldn’t be something ignored, as before all of this. All tanks had virtually empty spaces within their hulls and players at the time always complained about rounds overpenning or missing entirely because there would be systems in those space that didn’t exist.
For example, the whole debate with the T-90/72 not having an autoloader center mass where the ammo is.
The same is applied to select western MBTS that have different setups of their turret baskets.
I’m not sure why everyone is expecting that every MBT uses the same kind of turret basket that would be the same through very tank in the game, this more seems to be a lack of knowledge that not everything is created equally.
@Arctic-Fox
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Heres the thing youre ignoring
These parts have nothing to do with the turret drive. Theyre attached to the turret, not the race ring, meaning shooting them wouldnt damage the turret drive. If anything, its just an alluminum spall shield, that should actually be even more protection for the crew. But no, it avtually not only generates extra spall, but even catches fire when hit on the abrams (???)
On the other hand, russian magical autoloaders can apparently tank a shell like nothing and generate zero spall. Its blatantly biased, theres no denying it.
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Not to mention the actual 3-4 failsafes nato tanks have for electrical & hydraulic lines being hit.
Especially the abrams sense it also has a manual hand crank as well.
Which begs the question, how come these aren’t modeled and why is basically the whole turret basket a weak spot on these tanks?
(I know its only part of turret basket with the rest being visual, but when 1 piece of spall can disable the whole bloody thing, it doesn’t matter)
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Because that would require actual work and force them to admit that they completely fked up this implementation…
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The funny part is the manual backups are, go into test drive, turn you engine off and let the battery run down… you can still use your gun/autoloader at slower speeds with the manual systems, but if the power system is destroyed the manual system is also disabled for some reason
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Yet all turret baskets act the same, damage the basket tank cannot turn the turret.
It gets batter when you see Leopard 2A8 has switched to direct drive electrical motors removing the hydraulic pumps.
It is a blatant tool to rebalance some NATO tanks.
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Actually they switched to electric motors with 2A5 iirc.
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But they didn’t forget to add it on the m10 booker lol. Which begs the question does it even have one IRL?
For me it looks like they have basket-like structure, too. It just got detached from the turret before its lifted up. A basket is just neccessary to prevent injuries to the crew when the turret is traversing. In these images it just remains inside the tank, while the turret is lifted.
WW2 T-34 had no baskets. It lead to grave injuries among tank crews. Broken limps, lethal head injuries and everything else you might imagine when a turret rotates without protection mechanism.
And thats how it really looks like.
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Where are the hydraulic/Electric lines for T series tanks?
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They actually do… hydraulic fluid is what allows the turret to traverse… if that reservoir is punctured or ignited, then all operations of the turret will cease, (Not instantly, but the preformance will degrade tremendously) but will happen faster than you think. What, you think the turret just traverses magically with no other assistance?
The Merkava 4 for example uses an all electric driven system to rotate the turret. Early Merkavas used hydraulic systems to power the turret and they went through the trouble of moving that to the rear because of the huge risk of flammable liquid that can ignite when penetrated. Which explains the reason why it catches fire @ReturnToMon59249. because the basket houses exposed hydraulics that can leak into the tank. Along with fuel lines and electrical cables.
This is why the Merkava 4 switched to an all electric turret drive system.
And while we are on the topic of this. Early M1A1s, IPM1s, and I believe the M1A2 before any modernization programs, all lacked an APU. If the engine of any of those tanks get knocked out, the turret and FCS will lose power, and under ideal combat conditions, the manual operation of the turret wouldn’t make a difference because in the context of WarThunder, you’re already dead.
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They differ because this is the basket of a T-80B tank… which is why the “basket” you are refrencing are the containers for the shells. T-80s hold them vertically while the T-72/90s hold them lower to the tank horizontally.
That is why in the picture above you see the T-90Ms turret free because the autoloader is not modeled within the hull of the tank and isn’t physically prat of the turret, unlike the T-80s
This is just another case of being ill-informed.
That’s why in-game when the T-80BVM gets popped, it’s entire autoloader comes out with the turret… unlike the T-90/72s…
and is why in the picture above where they are swapping the T-90Ms turret onto an undamaged hull is so easy because the basket/autoloader isn’t all one piece of the turret.
So the abrams Losing all performance instantly due to hydraulic lines in the turret basket being “Hit” is still ahistorical/fake right? (As there is still at least 2 other fail-safes to keep it moving)
Not saying it shouldn’t eventually Stop the turret from turning after being hit, just not instantly like we have now. Maybe like 30 seconds for turret basket and 5 seconds for a direct hydraulic tank hit.
Not to mention that the actual basket should act as a sudo spall liner for crew and lines alike.
Eh, thats situational as theres plenty of times everyones had were turning slightly right or left would’ve saved them. (sense your engine is also hit 9/10 times)
The rest of what you said i do agree with more or less though.
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I completely agree that the hitting the basket shouldnt instantly disable the turret. But if a dart first hits the outer hull of the tank where the tracks are, yes the it’ll save it from some spall, but once it slams through the turret basket itself, it’s gonna create more spall in that small pocket. It only acts as a “shield” against spall from the 1st layer of armor the dart has to go through.
I’ll have to look into those, as it may be apart of the autoloader system itself.
Think of it this way, It’s not realistic, but it’s probably for the sake of “gameplay”. You hit center mass and the damage is only localized to the turret basket–and as you said before, the turret basket may absorb the spall, espeically if the round doesnt directly impact through it. It will eventualyl disable it but now the tank can turn to aim and kill the player who aimed a perfect shot center mass because it’ll take ~30 or ~5 seconds for operation to cease. Enough time to traverse the turret.
That is a reality that will fursturate players. Kind of how like before the baskets did exist, rounds would fly through empty space and you’d get creamed for missing.
I’m not saying it should be like this, but I know this is something that’s going to come up.
“I shot him center mass but he was still able to turn and kill me”
Kind of the idea with T-90s/80s. They will always have a round loaded
so disabling the autoloader doesn’t mean they still can’t turn and shoot you.
Or the autoloader “absorbed” the spalling as so many people seem to complain about.
I feel It’s also mainly that the turret basket shot has no counterplay at all where autoloader tanks have some form of defense.
Like, rn if you get shot in the basket your instantly dead no matter what unless you somehow get lucky with an engine not being hit. If the player however had the ~5 seconds to look around normally before total hydraulic stops and the crank kicks in. It gives them at least a small chance to survive if the enemy doesn’t move around them. Which mainly more skill and more rock paper scissors for people to play with.
This imo would probably alleviate most complaints about the basket as it doesn’t just mean instant win for randomly placed shots. Gives the player at least one more way to survive if they’re smart.
On the other side with the autoloader, its decently fair. Does it absorb spall when it really shouldn’t, probably. But with the reload being busted, you can at least try and bait there shot to kill them.
It acts as the last line of defense where turret basket tanks don’t even get one rn.
Not to say your wrong but look at the state of bombers/sim/heli EC. Nothing in this game is balanced for Gameplay, Just money and kicking the nuts of the minority of players that don’t just want a tdm.
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