It was so cool to have the turret basket modeled but not fix the round loaded in the breech disappearing into another dimension when the ammo rack dets.
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That will explain it :)
I’ve no issues in killing Russian tanks, infact i play against them everyday it’s just the fact that the autoloader eats shells and stop them from spalling is a absurd.
RU tanks are the second best in the game, maybe THE best tanks ingame right now because of the latest nerf to NATO tanks.
Also their tech tree is literally full of variant possible, while other nations suck and lack several tanks and SPAAs.
They’d literally model whatever they want in certain tanks, modelling the basket as horizontal but not fixing the turret ring is very Gaijoob expected behavior.
I’ve also heard they removed some armor from the Abrams breach, didn’t really check yet.
Type 10 and Merkava Mk.4M still exist.
Besides, the 2A7V / 122 still have a lot of positives over Russian MBTs - especially the T-90M.
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Why would you bring these tanks into this convo? If they’re shit then it’s forbidden for people to complain about their fav tanks now?
A shot to the lower front plate would disable the whole tank on the 2A7,B+ which in the Russian tanks doesn’t happen, if they got shot to their autoloaders they would be able to shoot the round that already in the breach and then they can move away to repair.
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No?
Where did I state that you can’t?
I’m saying Russian MBTs are still not the best MBTs, even with the nerfs to the 2A7/122/Abrams.
Russian tanks explode most the time via fuel tank or ammunition detonation through the LFP.
I agree with you that the autoloader can absorb shrapnel, but direct hits through ammunition (most of the time) leads to them blowing up.
Besides, the 2A7V doesn’t have the turret ring / Driver’s port weakspot that the T-80s / T-90s do - which often results in them dying in one shot, or severly cripple them by taking out their driver, turret ring and breech.
The 2A7V still has the much better reload than any Russian MBT, superior gun depression, superior turret armour, and superior reverse speed. Not to mention the spall liners and safe ammo stowage…
Why would it be fair to have Russian MBTs be inferior in everything other than ‘armour’?
And it’s not just Russian MBTs, Chinese MBTs have even worse armour and reload (unless you compare them to the T-90M), for similar reverse speeds to NATO MBTs.
This change also helps the Chally / Arietes be slightly more viable and not just directly inferior to the Abrams / Leo 2A7 / 122. (Though the difference in capability between the 2A7 / 122 and the Ariete is still insane despite the three being the same BR as one another).
In most competitive gamemodes (such as tourneys or squadron battles), most top teams would still prefer them over Russian MBTs, or if not, the Merkava and definitely the Type 10.
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I was talking about the basket that right now can be disabled much easier, and it will certainly spall into the engine too.
Russian tanks do reload slower than NATO that’s how it is irl.
Russian’s Engineering fault.
The worse tank in the game with exposed turret ring is the Abrams, i’ve shot Leclerc,Challengers trying to hit their turret ring i couldn’t, but how much easier i’ve disabled the Abrams just shooting the turret ring is literally absurd, imagine shooting the breach and you’ve disabled the Engine too, you would crush out if that happened.
At this point you’re just saying facts about how it is in real life, even with the new T90M they refused to upgrade the transmission (like they still live in the 80’s)
I literally have every nation you’ve mentioned, i still would prefer Russians MBTs, because 2 min ago a Hellfire was literally heading towards me, the Pantsir in my team intercepted them if i was playing in another tank and i’m fighting against Russia those Hellfires would stomp me. And let’s not forget about CAS also, and how easy it is to use it when you’re launching from 12km and ADATS can’t do shit.
Yes, the new changes to the 2A7 and Abrams can make them much less survivable. LFP shots now can completely disable them instead of partially (where it’s mostly just the engine that gets taken out, allowing them to shoot).
So you agree with me that these things are a big problem for Russian MBTs.
Why should they be the same BR as the 2A7V or 122 then…
‘The Battle Rating (BR) system uses a numerical value to determine the effectiveness of vehicles and equipment, influencing matchmaking by matching players with similar-rated vehicles.’
– if the T-80BVM / T-90M are not as effective as the 2A7V / 122 because of those massive limitations you agreed with existing?
Agreed, this is even worse than with the Type 10 or Merkava.
However, I was comparing the 2A7V and the BVM / T-90M, not the Abrams.
The 2A7V does not have these issues (along with the much better turret armour), so its armour is better than the Abrams (obviously), as well as the T-90M and BVM.
This is a different topic.
I would say NATO MBTs are still superior (in more than one way, as you have agreed with me before), but I agree that NATO countries need better SPAA.
A good change was that the ADATS and Flarakrad are now 11.7, so at least it’s not the same BR as the Pantsir, but if you’re playing top tier (12.7), then you need better SPAA regardless.
As for CAS aircraft, the Su-30 (Tied 1st place with Rafale for CAS and possibly Air Superiority), coupled with the Su-34 (Possibly 2nd place for CAS, and not really viable as Air Superiority) and Ka-52 (Best helicopter for GRB, along with the AH-60 (Israeli), and the other F&Fs (besides the German Eurocopter).
It’s even better than France’s CAS lineup (which consists of Rafale, Mirage 2000D-RMV (4/5th place for CAS, abysmal air-to-air at 12.7) and HAD Block 2).
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They do play a part, but with the recent nerfs to NATO tanks make those things less efficient.
Can’t really comment on the 2A7 because i don’t have it yet, but yeah it was the “BEST” tank in the game next to the B+ but as i said with the recent nerf it makes it less survivable and easy to disable.
99% when you play at 11.7 you going to meet 12.0.
I totally agree with all of these.
Yes, these nerfs to the Abrams and Leopards definitely do make them less efficient.
But it still doesn’t make them less efficient (overall) than any Russian MBTs because of all the other positive attributes they have over them.
Definitely worse than before, but it’s still up there with the best – if not still the best.
Sure, but it’s better than them being the same BR… 😅
I personally think (at the moment) the difference between the ADATS, Flarakrad and the Pantsir should be 0.7… so the Pantsir should be 12.3.
However, it could probably be even more than that if further decompression happens.
👍
This wouldn’t be a problem if tank controls without autoloader were modeled correctly.
Now all tanks are considered destroyed if there are 2 crew members left, but this is correct only for tanks with autoloader.
Tanks without it should be considered destroyed with 2 crew members, because the gunner cannot load shells from his seat.
Or they should not be able to be guided during reloading and wait for the time of transferring the crew from one place to another after each shot
Think about it
Moreover, when the commander moves to the loader’s seat. He gets his full skill, not the standard skill. I.e. abrams with commander in the loader seat will reload in ~5.2 seconds (commander’s skill will be lost), instead of 6.5 seconds.
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Though this would honestly be a nerf to all non-autoloaded vehicles.
Including Russian MBTs like the T-55s and T-62s and plenty of lower BR vehicles.
I think they won’t implement that (despite being a bit more realistic) for that exact reason.
These things still doesn’t matter if you get disabled super easily.
ADATS is better being a tank destroyer ngl, and yes Pantsir should be at 12.7 if we’re being honest.
Totally, but yeah i shot to the side before the nerf would take 2 crew and still able to move and turn your turret and shoot, now you can’t driver is dead, horizontal is disabled, that literally suck to wait for your death handicaped like that.
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Yes, which is why I also don’t think it should be the same BR as the flarakrad.
I think it’s around on par with the ITO 90, so they both could be 12.0… with the Canadian version maybe staying at 11.7.
The only reason why I wouldn’t say 12.7 is because it gets clapped very easily by good Rafale / Eurofighter pilots.
12.3 (as long as top tier air stands at 12.7) is fine.
Agreed, but it is what it is.
Eventually all top tier MBTs will have that issue, so I personally can’t wait for repair thunder.
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Any proof for that claim? You do also realize if your shooting the auto loader to ammo rack, your shell is going under the top of the auto loader which is another armored plate, which would eat spall yes. So I can’t imagine a shot where you can do both unless you see the under carriage.
Well since you and I have no issue killing Russian tanks they clearly can’t be the best. Leo2a7s post nerfs, (armor and now turret basket are still far better). The abrams has more survivability then the T-series, now on a more realistic level with them being almost equal, while the abrams still has the better shell and reload advantage.
Russia doesn’t have the best spaa, I’ll say it time and time again, it has the longest range, but over 2 miles maybe less, the g overload is so bad a simple turn and you’ll dodge the incoming aam.
Lastly, I haven’t heard anything about any additionally nerfs to the abrams
What is the best then?
Most top squadrons always use the Pantsir.
Only some bother using the ITO 90 because it’s only better in some situations.
Agreed.
The BVM has better armour, but the Abrams now has similar survivability.
Though the Abrams gets the better reload, shell, gun depression, and reverse speed in exchange for that better armour on the BVM.
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I would say its more like…
1st) 2A6, 2A7, 122s - Overall best armor. Great gun.
2nd) LeClerlc, Merk. 4M and T-80s/90M - LeClerc and Merk. have really solid turret armor and a good angle blocks most chassis shots. ERA and auto-loaders eating everyone elses shots for the T-series.
3rd) Type 10 and Ariete - Decent firepower for both but armor seems lacking.
4th) Challengers and Chinese MBT - Armor is really lacking (Guessing as I don’t play these but have seen a miilion and a half comments saying they have poor armor modelling).
5th) Abrams - seems to be modelled poorly by design. Denied viable anti-ERA round and DU armor. Turret basket nerf means any shot, even if it hits something miles away from the basket will still disable the basket, and therefore the horizontal traverse.
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I would put Type 10 with the 2A7 / 122.
The 4s reload, great round, survivability, mobility, and versatility more than makes up for the lack of armour.
It has better armour than the Leclerc (albeit it’s less consistent), and is better than the Leclerc in every other way.
The Merkava and 2A6 should be fine at 2nd, maybe on par with the Abrams (with its turret basket nerf).
The Abrams still has very strong turret cheeks… something that I can’t say with the Ariete, Type 10, or Leclerc.
The Leclerc and the T-90M / T-80BVM would be 3rd place.
Chally 2E / Chinese MBTs are definitely 4th, and the Ariete and the other Challies are definitely 5th.
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1st part: untrue, the T64bs and t80s all can load as fast as 3.89 secs, but are locked at 6.0 secs irl to be as reliable as possible, in game, it’s 6.5 secs.
NATO tanks don’t model the blast door for the ammo racks being open, but that seems to be the only way to justify the reload speed of the abrams / Leo’s in game, so they’re actually quite unrealistic, given the fact people are loading while the tanks are doing 40mph, imagine holding a massive tank round and your driver just slams the gas, and your load time starts over again because your loader fell. That would be more realistic, or mid reload if the blast door isn’t closed, it should immediately K/o the crew if the ammo is struck.
So, I beg to differ, I believe western tanks are more handheld in game…
2nd part: yes, it is true that the -5 or -6 gun depression, and the -3 or -8 mph reverse gears aren’t that good. But the tanks themselves are also quite small, making good hits harder to accomplish.
We could get the T-14 Armata (came out the same year as the T-90M btw), but it would be op, good gun, good armor, good reverse, reload, kinda shotty turret armor, but a good APS
It’s whatever the top Sweden spaa is I believe, has good range and wayy better g overload.