yeah, I don’t understand why those do not require more SP to spawn with. they are too similar to helicopter fire and forget missiles (also spikes and pars)
Probably because Spikes are genuinely bad ATGMs outside of a select few maps when it comes to ground vehicles, are vastly more limited in how they can engage things, and IFV that do get them, get far less of them than other IFVs get of ‘normal’ ATGMs, and can’t be used in CQC because of lock times and firing trajectory.
F&F ATGMs used on helis have the benefit of being able to fire from high-up and thus avoiding some of the more common issues that come with having to use them on the ground. BMP-2Ms Kornets are far more useable usually because they don’t come with any of Spikes downsides, should they be hit with an increased SP requirement or nah, because they aren’t “”“F&F”“”".
Seriously, do y’all hear “Fire and Forget” and just straight up assume they can phase through matter or what? I honestly still can’t believe that ground-launched Spikes have even been mentioned here and called “broken” when they’re straight up dog. Heck, the guy who mentioned them has a K/D of 0.62 against ground targets in his Puma VJTF, if that ain’t enough evidence to how bad Spikes are then I dunno what is. Them being somewhat capable against helicopters is their only saving grace.
With the greatest respect. If all the tanks in a map are nails and the KH38 is a hammer. How is the problem solved by adding another, bigger, hammer in a properly implemented brimstone?
yes, fire and forget is very important: skill and “vulnerability” is not needed to guide spikes unlike with bmp2m missiles. you just have to pick your targets. your point about spikes not being useful in cqc is odd, i’ve met a lot of spikes in cqc, they seem to be doing pretty well. and don’t act like spikes can’t kill tanks.
all you have to do is get a line of sight between you and the enemy cardboard vehicle for a couple of seconds. bam, you got a kill. much different from “see enemy - slow down to <4kmph, launch, guide the missile into a weakpoint”. if youre gonna talk about people taking cover, i have to mention how hard spikes are to trace - there is no smoke trail or anything.
by “somewhat capable against helicopters” you mean actually capable? because taking down a heli takes is a single spike. yes, it may not hit, but that is only in the case where…
the enemy pilot either saw you launching a spike (very rare) or
is just busy doing acrobatics (in which case they won’t score any kills) or
is stationed on the farther helipad (in which case they will score one, maybe two kills and then get shot down by a jet)
lastly, any sub 1 kd noob can complain about anything. but it won’t change the vehicle’s actual power. it can’t act as evidence for anything other than that person being bad with the vehicle.
I forgot to mention the british apache’s missiles. remember when they could just spawn at the start of the match and wreck every light armored vehicle? those years? lmao. I’m gonna take copium and hope that spikes get the same treatment
And 1:
- Your target has to be completely exposed, otherwise your Spike will not get a lock (ANY obstacle will prevent you from locking him, I am talking from experience in playing a vehicle with Spikes, UNLIKE YOU, who has zero experience with Spikes, and is only talking about them theoretically)
2:
This “invulnerability” is only real when you’re hiding yourself, BMP-2M can do the same and have just as much success. BMD-4/4M and BMP-3 with their barrel launched laser guided ATGMs are arguably more adept at this as they don’t need to expose themselves nearly as much as other IFVs with wire-guided ATGMs.
I’ll also add, there is very little skill involved in guiding ATGMs, most of them are powerful to punch through an MBT front to back, lol.
your point about spikes not being useful in cqc is odd, i’ve met a lot of spikes in cqc, they seem to be doing pretty well. and don’t act like spikes can’t kill tanks.
You haven’t played any Spike armed IFVs, how do you know they’re capable of doing well in CQC? For one, I’ve had my Spikes fail at ranges below 100 - 150 meters consistently (they either fly over the target or strike the top of their turret without doing any damage because they LOFT). Now, go ahead, get a vehicle with Spikes, and try to use it in a town where engagement ranges are very rarely over 100 meters, and when the target isn’t showing you his entire profile, or the fact you have to first lock a vehicle for your Spike to go active, instead of just pressing the launch button and watching it go, I’ll happily wait for you to post your findings. I also never said they “can’t kill tanks either”, so do quit with trying to put words in my mouth.
all you have to do is get a line of sight between you and the enemy cardboard vehicle for a couple of seconds.
A couple seconds on a very open map with little to no cover. Now lets try this again, but on a map that is full of trees, bushes, and/or buildings.
much different from “see enemy - slow down to <4kmph, launch, guide the missile into a weakpoint”
A number of IFVs don’t need to do any of that, for example, all ‘modern’ Russian IFVs don’t.
by “somewhat capable against helicopters” you mean actually capable? because taking down a heli takes is a single spike. yes, it may not hit, but that is only in the case where…
How do you define “actually capable”. I use my VJTF Spike’s against helicopters semi-regularly, but since this IFV is at a BR of 11.0, most of the time they’re outside of my effective firing range (4km) or have already been sent off by an actual SPAA. Something that can be used as a last ditch effort cannot be called “effective”.
lastly, any sub 1 kd noob can complain about anything. but it won’t change the vehicle’s actual power. it can’t act as evidence for anything other than that person being bad with the vehicle.
If a weapon system by definition is “cancer”, then it entail that it is much more powerful than most others (like the titular Kh-38), and has next to virtually no downsides. Spike has many downsides, and it is only more potent than other types of ATGMs on very open maps where line-of-sight is possible at any range.
I’m gonna take copium and hope that spikes get the same treatment
Ye, you should take the copim, seeing as you have no clue what you are even talking about. Also, it is funny seeing you cry about Spikes when you have over 3000 games in the most powerful helicopter in the entire game, the Ka-52, while saying nothing about how potent of a platform it is, and not advocating for it to receive an increase SP requirement due to how powerful it is, lol.
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The key difference between KH-38 (and now AASM or PGM) and a AGM-65 is the IOG.
To defeat an AGM-65, you pop smoke and the missile will loose the lock and self destruct. With the IOG you have to stop moving, smoke and start moving again to defeat the IOG. In some tanks this is easy, in others it is not.
Combine with the fact that the KH-38 is around twice as fast as the AGM-65, the amount of time you have to do this is halved. Add on the fact that the only nation that has any hope in actually contesting an Su-34 is the soviets with the Pantsir. The Whole situation just gets really muddy.
One of the Primary justifications they made about not adding FnF Brimstones was the lack of suffecient SPAA counter for them and then in the same update they added the Su-34 with 6x KH-38s (despite loads of complaints about the Su-25SM3 with them for ages) and since then you now also have the Rafale with slower but fairly equal weapons (IR+IOG AGMs) but does hold advantages over the Su-34 in compensation.
It is really frustrating the degree of imbalance.
In years past the balance was the soveits had the best SPAA and best Helis but the weakest fixed wing CAS. They now have the strongest of all 3 and no other nation has yet to get anything even close to the Pantsir.
IMO, what needs to be done is not a removal of KH-38, but a removal of IOG on ALL AGMs until such time every nation has an SPAA equal to or greater than the KH-38 and ideally the addition of equal FnF AGMs for all nations.
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I bet you’re so riled up because you’ve realized you’re having difficulties with a very powerful missile lol. no I don’t have any spike wielding vehicles, but I frequently view replays whenever I am killed with spikes, as I am simply baffled how gaijin allows that shit in game.
lol, sure. launch a kornet and go behind a building right away, i am sure it will hit the target with great success!
I’m gonna let you try to figure this one out by yourself ;)
where did I state that you did? get checked
so pretty much almost every map.
they kill or heavily influence helicopters that actually change the outcome of the match to an extent. also, the closest helipad is often 4km away from the middle of the map. you may use spikes as le last ditch effort but that is just you.
a noob will be bad with anything. simple enough
yeah, lets not be hypocritical and apply your logic here. you have no battles with it, therefore you do not know how difficult playing it is :D
make no mistake, I recognize and appreciate how you regret your wording - the edits you make are quite telling of your emotional disposition. keep it up
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Just confirming this, spikes ARE infact next to useless in CQC
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I think that began just about…
here.
that’s not a replay. that is a kill-cam. I view replays of the matches.
how? my take was - you can pop out, launch a spike, then hide. you told me that bmp2 can do the same with the same amount of success. communication issue?
I don’t see where I am accusing you of doing that. when you see a sign that says “do not smoke”, do you also think it accuses you of smoking? i can recommend a few good teachers, if you’d like their counseling.
yeah I actually talked about you removing some formatting that showed you were clearly upset. but I guess you’re following the advice I innately gave. which is - stop trying to hide your emotions.
Bruhathkayosaurus moment. Never knew stating a fact is ad hominem, I guess we learn something new everyday on the WT forum.
how? my take was - you can pop out, launch a spike, then hide. you told me that bmp2 can do the same with the same amount of success. communication issue?
Where. At no point did you say “hide”. Secondly, “hiding” doesn’t mean the vehicle must be literally removing itself from the LoS, it can mean that it’s ereasing its presence by hiding behind bushes, or exposing only a small part of itself.
I don’t see where I am accusing you of doing that.
“Don’t act like Spikes can’t kill tanks”
“I never said Spikes can’t kill tanks”
Mental gymnastics, honestly.
yeah I actually talked about you removing some formatting that showed you were clearly upset.
I didn’t remove anything, but m’kay, whatever makes you feel better.
yeah you went ad hominem even earlier, when you pointed out my lack of experience with spikes. look up what ad hominem means. it can be facts!
yeah I have said “vulnerability” is needed to guide bmp2 missiles. and that is true. you have to expose your turret (which blows up from anything 30mm and above). spikes do not need require this. exposing a small part is still being vulnerable, because of bmp’s fragility.
yeah you just don’t understand english, please stop coping.
sure ;)
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Then… it’s a fact and thus not an ad hominem? Call it criticism of your argument borne out of your lack of experience, but not an hominem since it wasn’t an argument against you, should be easier to understand.
yeah I have said “vulnerability” is needed to guide bmp2 missiles. and that is true. you have to expose your turret (which blows up from anything 30mm and above). spikes do not need require this. exposing a small part is still being vulnerable, because of bmp’s fragility.
Right, so we’ve cleared up that you did not say “hide” anywhere, so by arguing superficially for a scenario where the vehicle is literally invisble, rather than one where it’s just “hiding”, i.e the one I introduced, you committed to a strawman.
;)
yeah you just don’t understand english, please stop coping.
Anybody who has gone through primary school can see what you were impliying at back there with your statement, gaslighting ain’t gonna help you here lad.
the jewish heli has like 16 of them, the sum of all CAS in top tier is cancer
This is in context of ground vehicles… like Namer, Puma, whatever other poor IFV has to suffer from Spikes.
Pretty sure they buffed their pen, and they usually target the drivers hatch in the T series tanks. They are better than before at least. The italian vehicle with 12 of them is pretty good
Going from “utterly useless” to “mostly utterly useless” ain’t that much better if you ask me. Granted, Freccia benefits the most from it, but that’s only because it has so many of them so it doesn’t have to “ration” them like everything else, afaik Namer has only four, Puma also has four, and Lynx has recently been nerfed to just two, iirc?
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They should remove all FnF ammunition from this game, if not cas as a whole
the targeting still is botchy as heck
additionaly many ifv fnf launchers suffer under stiff launcher syndrom where u cant adjust the launch angle, resulting in a minimum engagement distance and general skewed targeting
I’ve been killed wayyy too many times at almost point blank range with them so I’m salty about that