That is armor. Im not sure what you think Kevlar is.
It’s not. I’ve made a section of composite, it’s mostly woven fabric and honeycomb. Also, Kevlar is not armor the way it’s used on composites. it may slow a small arms round down, but it won’t deflect it and it would cause damage that would need to be repaired
https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_43.13-1b_w-chg1.pdf chapter 3
Sikorksy themselves stated the Commanche is able to survive 23mm HE hits, Numerous sources state this, the Commanche is 50% more durable than all other helicopters that existed at its time. The Graphite-Composite-Kevlar helped with this , I dont know why you think you making something is superior to whats stated by sikorsky themselves.
survive, not go undamaged (plus HE round not an AP round)
I literally typed "survive 23mm HE rounds. "I also never said undamaged. A.P rounds also lose speed and power over distances and would bounce off the helicopter at great ranges at extreme angles. The way the commanche was on the dev server was essentially exactly how the helicopter should have stayed.
Sure, but let me ask you, where does it say that the composite is armor?
Not from a technical manual so it would never pass devs but realistically this thing was pretty impressive
This second one is from sikorskyarchives
1 Like
Someone who is good at math can convert
to tnt value
This is what AI had to say
This is just for the tail section. Unfortunately we don’t know how resistant the rest of the Comanche is
1 Like
Kevlar is armor. I dont know why you’re playing word semantics. You know we give soldiers Kevlar Vest/ Plates
Feel like the term ballistically tolerant keeps being glossed over.
Composites act differently than steel or aluminum does when they take severe damage.
Spoiler
Would expect higher standards of ballistic protection than a Apache or Blackhawk.
The military considers anything 15mm and under small arms and they weren’t meeting goals for crew protection
Composites tolerate having a hole blasted in it far better than metal does thanks to the numerous layers of crossed fibers hence the constant mentions of ballistically tolerant.
You wouldn’t call any of those (from the unlimited distribution Proceedings of the Army Symposium on Solid Mechanics, 1972
The Role of Mechanics in Design : Ballistic Problems) armored simply because it says ballistically tolerant would you?
You glossed over this portion. “Composites improve survivability as well” (vs steel or aluminum)
Lets not forget that this also says “They allow Comanche to withstand hits by 23-mm explosive projectiles because their multifiber makeup stops tears and cracks from spreading”
“In addition, the Commanche is being built to the same standards of ballistic protection/tolerance as the AH-64 Apache and UH-60 Blackhawk”
The same standards means that is the minimum requirement. It does not mean that it isn’t better. The sikorsky archives rates the Comanche as 50 times better than traditional helicopters.
The term ballistically tolerant does not mean impenetrable but it also doesn’t mean that a tank can take 3 shots with their machine gun and blow off the tail section of the Comanche.
1 Like
Kevlar on its own is not armor, words from not only an A&P mechanic but also a marine (BTW that’s not referring to me)
It does have a different rha modifier in the game, them removing it gives the Comanche the same fuselage modifier of generic aviation aluminum that all other non wooden aircraft have
I didn’t, it improves survivability because a composite component under load doesn’t rip like a tear in metal does.
Same as above.
Yes, the tail is the wildcard given it used kevlar, but we do know what type of damage to expect to the graphite epoxy skin.
They wanted a composite wing to survive a 23mm HE hit in a 4G turn and that 6 inch hole passed the damage tolerance test
The comanche had a long-standing weight problem that got worse as capabilities were added, enough so they were doing anything and everything possible to reduce weight anywhere they could, I could see areas such as the tail boom being able to shrug off hits but the concept of a armored fuselage skin thick enough to tank 23mm on an overweight stealth copter who’s primary defense is to not be seen to begin with is questionable.
Tolerate a hit yes, shrug it off without damage no.
What you said is true of a number of modeled armors in game, reminder that rubber is still superior to most NATO NERA in game and its literal rubber sheet.
If gaijin chooses to model the above, there is no reason why kevlar cannot be modeled if the likes of sheet rubber is modeled as armor.
To that same end, a reminder to everyone trying to make the argument that “Composites do not act like armor steel and have no multi-hit capability”.
Yes this is true, in real life that is, and war thunder is not real life. Armor never degrades outside of naval, thus, such is irrelevant. Everything acts like armor steel in game, just with improved or degraded performance, the skin of the Comanche on dev abided by the design philosophy that gaijin had set forward, now, it does not, such is a simple fact.
2 Likes