Q-5L and its weaponary

[pegabug]

Okay, you can see the flares on the first image but I agree that the picture is grainy and you could argue “I don’t see it”. So this spurred me along to hunt down some Chinese sources somebody shared with me on the forums awhile ago and translate them with just a basic Chinese translator. Spoiler, the document says the Q-5L gets both AAM’s and flares, find below both the translated (not the best) and untranslated pages.

For reference, the order of aircraft progression is Q-5B (Q-5IA) → Q-5C (Q-5II)/Q-5D (Q-5III) → Q-5L

NOTE: there is still some miscommunication on whether the Q-5C was from the Q-5IA or the Q-5A. Two of my sources agree on the Q-5IA and it lines up more correctly than the Q-5C being based on an older Q-5A model when they had the Q-5IA.

Translated:

Spoiler

Keep in mind these translations are rough, when you translate enough of these you can match of the Chinese text pretty well with what the English is trying to say.

Q-5IA and onwards the Type 941 flare/chaff dispenser is equipped to increase survivability. Judging from the photos of the Type 941, perhaps the flare quantity on the Q-5A in game is incorrect. It should also be different than the A-5C as Pakistan had requested the usage of the GT-1 flare/chaff dispensor instead. I don’t think it’s needed so i won’t include that page, but I can provide it if requested.

Proof of Q-5C was made off of Q-5IA:

NOTE: the second translation has an error, it says the Q-5A was the basis but in the actual text it says Q-5IA, the translation software did not detect it correctly.

Documentation of compatibility with AAM’s:

Mentioned in these is that the outer light pylons are able to mount AAM’s like the Pl-5’s, Aim-9’s or Magic’s. It specifically says upgraded Q-5’s like the Q-5III (A-5C) can carry them.

Untranslated:

Spoiler

Book Covers/Titles:

Spoiler

Now, it should be WITHOUT A DOUBT the Q-5L can get it’s Type 941 flare pods (AND the Q-5A’s changed) and can carry Pl-5’s. If you would like a copy of both sources, let me know where I can upload them.

[Gunjob]

Create a report on the CBR and link it to me :
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder
I’ll take a look after work.

[jd_hog77]

It is applied consistently, the F-5C get flares do it being a renamed 5A. Which could be mounted with flares.

[pegabug]

Here is the link to the report: Community Bug Reporting System

Let me know if anything needs changed/adjusted.

[Gunjob]

Still working but you should split the report. One for CMs and one for AAMs. We have a one issue per report rule.

[pegabug]

Understood. I have adjusted the first report to solely be about the missing Type 941 flare pod.

Here is a link to the second report about missing the ability to carry Pl-5’s: Community Bug Reporting System

I did add a bit more information here as the sources agree that the Q-5III was wired for the Pl-5’s and the A-5C export version had to be rewired for Aim-9’s and Magic’s for Pakistan. The Q-5L being a further improved Q-5 retains the improvements made with the Q-5III development.

[Bonrath]

I hope the whole drama around the Q-5s can finally be put to rest…

[Gunjob]

Cheers, I’ve forwarded those for consideration.

[Nuckerball]

For me at least, the targeting pod for q5L is completely broken to the point where its gbu’s are useless. When in the pod sight view, it only updates tank movement like every 4 seconds leading to extreme latency which causes your bombs to miss unless the vehicle remains stationary the entire time. Other wise the vehicles you lock will rubber band and desync into terrain and buildings etc

[Bonrath]

Well, at this point when we know the JH-7 is coming I at least hope the Q-5L also gets it’s missing features in a single swoop.
I guess that’d be nice

[Armen_Lozone]

i found some images that also point towards the Chaff dispenser at least. these are a chinese variant so they look a bit different that the ones in game rn (or the ones in game arent given the proper 3d texture)

[Bonrath]

Neither of those two is the L model but I see what you’re pointing at.
Those are at least the IB models without dispensers inserted (because show camouflage, not needed for shows).

[Armen_Lozone]

oh wait good catch. they dont have the Laser targeting system under the nose right?

[Bonrath]

That’s one of the Ls features yes. Smaller details I’m not as good at but ye

[pegabug]

Correct. Nose sensor is the biggest give away. Curious as to what model the 2nd photo is. It doesn’t seem to have any RWR upgrades seen even on the Q-5IA (this is when the RWR is upgraded to include sensors on the nose to get 360 coverage). Wonder if this could be a Q-5I or perhaps a Q-5III? Anyone got any more information on it? Could be very useful if this is a Q-5I because it would show AAM compatibility for the Q-5IA model (Q-5IA based off of Q-5I).

[SaratogaCV60]

I think it is incorrect to prove by A5C (Q5III) that Q5L can carry AAM. According to page 81, the Q5L is an upgraded version of the Q5C(Q5II), while the A5C (Q5III) is an improved version for Pakistan’s needs, and the two do not belong to the same technical route. The improved AAM carrying model mentioned on page 115 refers to the Q5III (A5C) rather than the Q5II (Q5C). The Q5C (Q5II) cannot carry AAM and the improved entry on page 81 does not mention carrying AAM.

[Sonoda_Kotori]

Where did you find this book? I’ve been looking for it forever and people refused to send it to me. I can provide a detailed translation. Here are the gist of it:

为了加强飞机的战场生存能力，从强五IA飞机开始安装了941型箔条/红外干扰弹综合投放器，作为飞机电子对抗系统的重要组成部分。
In order to improve the survivability of the aircraft on battlefields, Type 941 chaff/flare dispensers were equipped starting from Q-5IA as an integral part of the aircraft’s EW suite.

This picture is the Type 941 dispenser. Each dispenser contains 32 shots.

941型箔条/红外干扰弹综合投放器由控制系统和若干个发射筒组成，控制系统根据雷达告警器确定的干扰对象，决定投放箔条或红外干扰弹的品种、数量、投放时机和时间间隔。投放方式一般有手控、程控和应急三种控制方式
Type 941 chaff/flare dispenser consists of a controller and a certain amount of launch tubes, the controller determines the type, amount, timing and delays of the countermeasures deployed according to the targets identified by the RWR. Countermeasures can be dispensed manually, programmed (the aforementioned automatic deployment), or via emergency deployment.

除了能使用激光制导炸弹外，强五L飞机还能够挂载使用国内新研制的一些新型空地制导武器。随着国内对这方面技术的研究发展，一批重量轻、精度高的新型激光制导炸弹、电视制导炸弹、制导滑翔炸弹、小型空地导弹等陆续研制成功，彻底改变了原先强五飞机只能在机翼中间重载挂架上挂载LS-500J型激光制导炸弹这单一的一种激光制导武器的局限性。机冀内侧和外侧的轻载挂架也能够挂载这些重量较轻的小型空地导弹，这样就大大增加了强五L飞机的武器挂载方案，作战能力和使用灵活性更佳。
Apart from LGBs, the Q-5L is capable of carrying modern domestic air-to-ground guided munitions. As the domestic research and development progresses, a wave of lightweight, high accuracy laser guided bombs, TV guided bombs, guided glide bombs and compact air to ground missiles were successfully developed, completely changing the limited guided armament of one LS-500J LGB per middle (heavyweight) pylon. The inboard and outboard (lightweight) pylons are now capable of carrying these smaller AGMs, significantly increasing the Q-5L’s suspended armament, improving its combat capabilities and mission versatility.

强五飞机主要用于对地攻击，因此空战能力较弱。除了使用机炮能够进行空战外，为了进一步加强飞机的自卫空战能力，在强五III等改进型飞机的机翼翼尖挂架上还增装了空空导弹。由于强五飞机本身没有安装机载火控雷达，因此只能挂载国产霹雳-5，霹雳-7,或法制“魔术”，美制“响尾蛇”等红外制导空空导弹，而无法使用雷达制导导弹。
Q-5’s primary purpose is ground attack, therefore its A2A capabilities were limited. Apart from dogfighting with the autocannons, in order to further increase its self-defence A2A capabilities, air to air missiles were added on the wing tip pylons (technically outboard pylons, not wingtips) of the Q-5III (A-5C) and other improved variants. Due to the lack of an onboard radar, only infrared AAMs such as the PL-5, PL,-7, Magics or Sidewinders were used, and it’s incapable of launching radar-guided missiles.

[pegabug]

The Q-5IA happened simultaneously as the A-5C upgrade. The A-5C program was meant as a foreign trade version of the Q-5 based off the Q-5I. Particularly the modification design for the A-5C was carried out under the same standards for Q-5IA. They shared the same base requirements but the A-5C had additional requirements set forth by Pakistan. This is why we see a lot of the subsystems that were first introduced on the Q-5IA also on the A-5C; the programs were not mutually exclusive and improved Q-5’s often built off of the past programs. This is why the document says improved Q-5’s can carry AAM’s and gives an non-limiting example as the A-5C. This is also why the Q-5IA is not able to carry AAM’s. But instead it is here, at the Q-5IA where many of the other improved Q-5 variants are built off of and all have access to the technology developed and used in the A-5C program. Furthermore it is commonplace in these books to not include every feature of each variant, it covers what is done differently. Such as the Q-5IA upgrading the RWR system to be 360 coverage over the Q-5I’s tail only coverage. As such, at the critical junction of the A-5C development and onwards, there is no further need to specify each and every variant of Q-5 can carry AAM’s because it was already established that they are able to carry the domestic Pl-5 in the A-5C program. As just one more example of one program taking from another, take the flares on the A-5C for example. The Q-5IA led the development for countermeasures and the A-5C took what had already worked there and reproduced them for the A-5C program and then modified the design to fit the clients demands for usage of the GT-1 flare pod instead of the Type 941.

[pegabug]

Thanks for the translations! I got access to these books by another forum user. here’s the link to the drive with them: Microsoft OneDrive

If this does not work, here is a link to the forum post with a link to the drive that does work: Q-5L Missing Countermeasures & Visual Model Inaccuracies - China - War Thunder - Official Forum

[SaratogaCV60]

But there are no photographs showing that the PLAAF Q5 is equipped with AAM.