Oh the ZTZ99 is so much more different from the T-72. In game less so but irl yes
That was my entire point, even tho they difer from themselves irl in game not by much, its basicly the same playstyle until ZTZ99A, WZ1001 and VT-41. The point was not about saying that China in real life is copy paste of USSR/Russia, the point was in game is more or less copy paste of china, playstyle is basicly the same with minor changes. The Ground and The Air plays basicly the same with some parts that it makes them difrent. Im not saying that Poland is super 101% OG techtree, but I - Me personaly I’ve made this techtree in way that “It feels like soemthing I know, yet I don’t feel it”
Line 1 - Starts with Polish Light tanks biult in interwar era, then evolves into Copy pasted vehicles from USSR then more into semi-original/semi-uniqe vehicles like T-34-85M2, T-54AM2 and T-55AM “Merida”, then it evolves into modified T-72 that basicly turns into PT-91 Twardy which is by far the most “Polonised” MBT we have, it defininitly can be called even Polish MBT due to fact that we made those from scratch (PT-91 not T-72M1Z)
Line 2 - consist of Tanks that were imported to Poland, then into vehicles used by Polish army on West, then into light tank line and at last into Imported MBT’s - Leopard 2Pl and K2GF (maybe if we got info about how K2PL would look at the end I would add it)
Line 3 - wheeled light tanks with a brake for ASU-85
Line 4 - Starts with Polish tankettes and evolves into tank destroyers from USSR and UK, and turns into light tank/fire support light tanks at the end
Line 5 - consists in 95% of Polish made AA’s + at the end there will be another since this TT is very outdated
So as I said - this entire thread is not about “ADD POLAND BEACSUE POLAND SUPER DUPER ORIGINAL💯💯💯💯” is about explaining that making any TT is not about adding every tank and vehicle they had, beacsue it will make people drop it, cuz “grind long” “grind not interesting” etc. etc. Also that point of “Copy paste” in 2025 is something nobobdy cares, only frustrated players will say its copy paste, if that is copy paste, then its the copy paste I want. No another M60 upgrade with ERA, no T-72 with extra ERA or generaic leopard i want something that is familiar yet uniqe its its un-uniqnes.
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also question why hasn’t this been put in as a suggestion?
what hasn’t been put?
No there isn’t a suggestion for polish tech tree on this forum, on old one yes, this one no
so you sayig that I should make an actuall “suggestion” rather than “explanation” for why my version is better and has more sense than techtress before?
I dug out some seriously great picture from some Georgian Forum of Polish BWP projects
So Im in a little pickle:
1st. there’s a big Gap between 6.0 and 8.0 beacsue there’s T-34-85M2 and nothing else till 8.0 when T-55U apears - question is, should I add IS-2 and IS-3 to fill the gap
2nd gap between Ryś E8 at 8.7 and SKOT-2AM at 6.7, and I want to add Żbik-B with 9K111 at 8.0 or 8.3 so the gap won’t be that big on one hand Żbik-B is modified BRDM with .50cal istead of 14.5mm and better engine on other it has 400mm of pen with that 9K111 missle and is fast and small
3rd thing Im gathering people who have made other Polish/Polish-czech/ anything Polish TT related, on DC, I come to the conclusion that best way to gather information and opinions from people who worked on it previously is on DC. For now in my DM’s but if there is enough people I will make server for it.
my DC nickname is: erce
Or maybe there’s alredy server for it idk, if there is I would like to be invited to it.
Never then less, for me it would be easier to make next video in polish and english, beacsue I’m not alfa and omega, I don’t know much about aircraft besides how they fly (lol).
Hello, I would like to contribute my humble part to the project. It would be nice to see the Yak-1b in the Polish tree, in accordance with the attached article:
I finished making my suggestion for KTO Rosomak (HITFIST-30P) below is my draft if someone wants an early look.
Rosomak draft (quite long)
History
KTO Rosomak is the Polish version of the AMV vehicle developed by the Finnish company Patria Vehicles. Patria won the tender for 690 wheeled armored personnel carriers concluded in December 2002, defeating competing vehicles – the Pandur II and the Piranha IIIC.
The name “Rosomak” was chosen in a competition organized by the monthly “Nowa Technika Wojskowa”. The new transporters were to replace the withdrawn OT-64 SKOT vehicles and enable the withdrawal of some BWP-1
By decision of the Chief of the General Staff of the Polish Army on December 31, 2004, the carrier was accepted for service. The first Rosomak carriers, manufactured in 2004, were delivered to the army on January 8, 2005 (three in the combat version with the Hitfist-30P turret and six basic vehicles without armament). In addition, 82 Rosomaks were delivered to the army in 2005, including 42 basic chassis, and 39 in 2006 (just the basic chassis). Under the first contract, the army received a total of 570 vehicles, including 359 in the combat version.
The combat version of the APC is equipped with the two-man Hitfist-30P turret, developed by Italy’s OTO Melara. production of most of the ordered vehicles is to take place in Poland. The production line for the APCs was established at the Military Mechanical Works in Siemianowice Śląskie. The assembly line, and later the turret production, was transferred to the Bumar-Łabędy plant in Gliwice.
In May 2007, the first 24 Rosomaks equipped with the Hitfist turret were deployed to support the Polish Military Contingent in Afghanistan and entered combat operations in mid-June. This also marked the combat debut of the Rosomak. They were fitted with additional armor from late July 2007. During the first six months, they covered over 85,000 km and several were damaged, including two seriously by fougasse, but the crews suffered no serious injuries. Subsequent combat also resulted in relatively few crew losses, primarily to vehicles destroyed by high powered fougasses. As a result of the intense fighting, the number of Rosomaks in Afghanistan increased, reaching 89 in 2010, with the highest number reaching 134 (a total of 181 vehicles deployed).
According to unconfirmed estimates, almost every vehicle was hit at least once by small arms or anti-tank weapons, and more than half required repairs. They were most frequently attacked by RPG-7 anti-tank grenade launchers and large-caliber machine guns (12.7 mm and 14.5 mm). Despite this, irreversible losses on the ground amounted to eight Rosomaks M1M and six M3, and after damage assessments in Poland, a total of over 30 vehicles were written off. The additional armor fulfilled its function against the anti-tank weapons used in that conflict, and it is estimated that the use of the additional armored Rosomaks saved the health or lives of over one hundred soldiers.
The Ministry of National Defense signed a second contract for Rosomak vehicles on October 24, 2013. It covered the delivery of another 307 vehicles, this time all in their basic version. In 2018, 2019, and 2020, annexes were made to this second contract, reducing the total to 11 basic vehicles. Their production was transferred to new, separate contracts dated March 9, 2018, September 3, 2019, and December 21, 2020, concerning a specialized version of the Rosomak-WD command vehicle. Currently, contracts are being implemented for Rak 120mm self-propelled mortars, AWD artillery command vehicles, AWR artillery reconnaissance vehicles, Rosomak-WRT technical reconnaissance vehicles, and the integration of 70 ZSSW-30 turrets with Rosomak chassis.
Polonization
Initially, KTO Rosomak vehicles were equipped with Swedish Armox steel for their armor.
Starting in 2010, production shifted to using ARMSTAL steel manufactured by Huta Stalowa Wola (HSW).
The vehicle is also equipped with various systems, including the CHERDES NBC protection, the TALIN navigation system, Hertz Systems HGPST-T GPS receiver, and the FONET digital communication system. In 2022, the TILDE FC thermal imaging camera began to be phased out in favor of the polish KLW-1R Asteria thermal camera.
Characteristics
Armament
-
Turret: HITFIST-30P
- Horizontal guidance speed: 1 rad/s (≈57,3 deg/s)
- Vertical guidance speed: 0,5 rad/s (≈28,6 deg/s)
-
30mm Bushmaster mk44
- Elevation: -5°/+60°
- Two-plane stabilizer
- Fire rate: (200 rpm)
- Ammo capacity: two magazines (79+121) ready racked, additional ammo stored in hull
- Ammo feeding: Dual-feed
-
Ammo:
-
APFSDS (NM 225) (already in game)
-
FAPDS-T (domestic)
- Projectile weight: 235 g
- Cartridge weight: 750 g
- Muzzle velocity: 1385 m/s
- Charge weigth: ~172 g (2654,32 gr)
- Dispersion: ≤ 0.4 mils at 1 000 m
- Penetration: 30 mm RHA 60° NATO at 1000 m
-
MP-T/SD (NM 222)
- Projectile weight: 363 g
- Cartridge weight: 835 g
- Muzzle velocity: 1 070 m/s
- Charge weight: ~148 g (2283,95 gr)
- Maximum dispersion: < 0.4 mils at 1 000 m
- Penetration: 10 mm RHA 60° NATO at 1000 m
- Tracer: ≥ 4.6 s
- Self-destruction: Yes
-
-
7,62 mm UKM-2000C
- Magazine capacity: 250 rounds
- Rate of fire: 700-900 rpm
- Velocity: 850 m/s
- Range 1500 m
- Length: 1058 mm
- Barrel length: 521 mm
Mobility
- Engine: Scania DI 12 49 A 03 P
- power: 360 kW / ≈489 PS @ 2100 rpm
- Max torque: 1974 Nm @ 1500 rpm
- Transmission: ZF 7HP902 S Ecomat
- Gears: 7 forward, 1 reverse
- Max speed: 100 km/h
- Max speed in water: 10 km/h
- Max reverse speed in water: 3,3 km/h
- Turn radius: 12 m
- Amphibious
Armor
- STANAG 4569 protection
- Turret front: Level IV
Sides and back: Level III - Hull Front: Level IV
Sides and back: Level III
- Turret front: Level IV
Hull is made of 8 mm of ARMSTAL 500 (HHA) and front from ARMSTAL 550 while floor is made of ARMSTAL 450
Side panels mounted on the hull are made of 6mm ARMSTAL 500 with 35mm air gap which can be filled with foam to enchance protection
(educational cross-sections of the KTO Rosomak chassis)
optics, electronics
-
Gunner optic:
(Hitfist installed with old TILDE FC thermal camera)
- KOLLSMAN DNRS 288 day-night sight
- KLW-1R thermal camera
- 3-rd generation
- Electronic zoom: 2x, 4x
- Wide FOV: 10°
Narrow FOV: 3.1°
-
Commander optic:
- 8 x M17 periscopes
- Image from gunners monitor
-
Driver opitc:
- PNK-72 night vision
- FOV: 30°
- PNK-72 night vision
-
Laser warning system: OBRA-3
- Detection angular range in vertical plane: -6°/+30°
- Detection angular range in horizontal plane: 360°
- Dange of detected radiation: 0.6 μm – 11 μm.
-
Laser rangefinder
-
FCS
- Commander can shoot in emergency situations
ㅤ
- Commander can shoot in emergency situations
Dimensions
Overall length (A): 7880 mm
Front overhang (B): 1760 mm
Wheelbase (C): 1400 mm
Wheelbase (D): 1700 mm
Wheelbase (E): 1450 mm
Overall width (F): 2830 mm
Front track (G): 2450 mm
Ground clearence (H): 430 mm
Height with turret (I): 3275 mm
Summarized characteristics
- Crew (3)
- Driver, gunner, commander
- 30mm Bushmaster Mk44
- Ammo: APFSDS-T (NM 225), FAPDS-T (domestic), MP-T/SD (NM 222)
- Elevation: -5°/+60°
- Two-plane stabilizer
- Fire rate: (200 rds/m)
- 7,62 mm UKM-2000C
- Commander sight
- Image from gunners monitor
- Gunner sight
- 2nd Gen thermals
- LWS Obra 3
- Laser Rangefinder
- 6 x 81mm Gak-81 smokes
- Combat weight: 22,5 t
- Engine: Scania DI 12 360 kW / ≈489 PS
- Max speed: 100 km/h
- Max speed in water: 10 km/h
- Length 7,88 m Width: 2,83 m Height: 3,27 m
Sources
Armament
- UKM-2000C
- Regarding elevation it’s true that turret can achieve -10°/+60° but it has been limited in the range from -5°/+60°
- Guidance speed
- Ammo
- Ammo capacity
dimensions, mobilty
- Dimensions
- https://www.wojsko-polskie.pl/kto-rosomak/
- https://cdn.asp.events/CLIENT_CLDD_9BDAB70C_5056_B733_4934A7872C9C46B0/sites/dsei-2023/media/libraries/exhibitor-brochures/54390-pgz-katalog-2023.pdf#page=12
- https://www.nexto.pl/upload/azumuteb/bel_studio/D41292C0EB/free/D41292C0EB.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOoqZN5xCxX1Oa-cewEBzTQi03jcMcKWsouxKYLZQ4XHQq-L22pIU
- Engine parameters
Armor
-
Delivery of ARMSTAL for Rosomak https://web.archive.org/web/20160220232849/http://hsjsa.pl:80/resources/uploaded/Rosomak.pdf
-
Usage of ARMSTAL in Rosomak
-
Photo from COGNOR (steel manufacturer), i was unable to find uncut image
-
ARMSTAL Brinell hardness
-
Optics, electronics
- LWS Obra-3
- KLW-1R thermals
- https://web.archive.org/web/20160518042728/http://pcosa.com.pl/pliki_do_pobrania/produkty/web_KLW1_EN.pdf
- KLW-1R being purchased by 4th Regional Logistics Base in Wrocław
Wojsko kupuje kamery termowizyjne do Rosomaków
Więcej kamer KLW-1R trafi do Wojska Polskiego
- PNK-72
- FCS elements
Next, I’ll be working on a suggestion for low tier AA, SKOT-2AP which could be a 2.3 br
I also found a vehicle which could be either premium or event, modernised by HSW BMP-1 with Delco LAV-25 turret
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Very good piece of work!
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Thanks to help of one of my server members we’ve managed to uncover more about HM-45. More about what it was, why it existed and what it was its main armament.
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do you have enough for suggestion?
We’re in procces of making both the TT and the Video (Im doing the 2nd part mostly)
Combining the power of few other people who share difrent ideas yet one goal - Polish TT.
We’re trying to figure out one, specific and satisfactory TT that will apeal of not only me, but people who also been working on that. Beacsue to convince Gaijin we need cohesion in that topic, if they see One version of it that will be supported since, They will say “okay okay we might rethink/think about chaning/implementing the TT”
do you have link for the discord server? I could help with suggestions and stuff for individual vehicles
I DMed you
Holy shit a lot going on.
I wonder if i will live to see it happen
You will live until 2026
For english verion yes, for Polish you will probobly see it on November 11.
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