His general point I think is that sub tree’s have a positive impact on other tech tree’s which is true, at least when the nation is not capable of being it’s own tech tree. But then there are tech tree’s which are very capable of being stand alone without too much copy & paste content.
1 Like
“you can get your own flags and decals in the game, just mean it isn’t independent”
Most diabolical thing to say, hire this dude for Russian tsardom
6 Likes
Ironically if I want to use my birthplace flag, I have to wait for a holiday just to be able to buy it at full flag price (assuming it doesn’t go on another multi year hiatus).
2 Likes
So after watching both of those videos, I can say that - he has very wierd point of view, what the players want and what we don’t want.
For example the flag thing “you can get your own flags and decals in the game, just mean it isn’t independent” is like saying “you can feel your national pride only for 4.99$” its malicious and evil, of course there are some nations that are far from getting added, like Palestine, Brazil or idk Afghanistan and here its the only way of showing your national pride. Yet in my case, its like spiting on my back. Do I want Poland in WT? Yes I do. Is this small tech tree? Its certenly not (and can be expanded by other nations Ukraine or Czechoslovakia (yet I still think they have more interesting vehicles and chance of having Idepended TT rather than being a sub tree)). Is it not copetetive in todays envoirement? I mean the Start is a bit a pain, with the SA18 and the WZ. 38, yet the Wz. 37 37mm Bofors will do the job till 3.0, and the bigger rank the vehicles become more competeble.
“Subtrees are good beacsaue it brings variety and makes positive inpact” yes, yet thing is - where Czechs + Slovakians? f.e Good luck adding them to German TT, alredy bifed up TT now gets more. Same here Poland to UK? USSR? GERMANY? France?! like I know some Nations have something in common lets ignore the Hungarians in Italy but some of them don’t fit anywhere. He used Czechoslavakia and Yugoslavia as example. Yet he forgot that those are probobly best additions as a Independent Tech tree with TON of vehicles to choose from, even Poland does not have that many vehicles to offer. So his point is only valid till we speak about adding nations that are lets say small on the map yet they have really big Weapons industry and history of Tanks, Planes and Helicopters.
“Making them Competeble to the Big 3” Its not like the Big 3 in todays envoiremnt is just relic of the past, yes USA, Germany and USSR has lot of vehicles to offer, yet only one of them feels like its doing good in 2025 - USSR or Germany (kinda depends who you ask) USA has only good CAS and ground is just a additionm, you don’t play USA for the ground you play USA for the CAS. USSR and Germany has probboly the best MBTS and variety of tanks, but China and Sweden gets even better. STRV122B+ is 2A7V with more armor that has better survivability, WZ1001 or ZTZ99A offers what USSR tanks can’t do but for less armor. And mostly players from those two nations are most fierce in battle. And don’t get me started on Japan. Yes i know it took couple of years for them to be this good yet, its not 2018 when T-80B was added and it was the Top Tier, its 2025 and we have nations that are from the start competeble up do the end (very generalising). Poland is the example of this, you start slowly maybe a bit harsh but the higher the rank the more competeble you are, I don’t think K2GF (than maybe PL) and F-16C B52+ is something you can’t fight on a Toptier or PT-91 and Su-22M4 11.0 is a Bad combo.
lastly “adding stuff” in updates, yes the vehicles are fun and stuff but, if you add good ammout of vehicles not to many, not too less with vehicles that can compete with others on fair level. Why do you need to add new vehicles every update or every two or three updates. If the tech trees balance of vehicles, BR’s and its copetebility is good.
TEC definitly has some informations that others don’t, but his own views on somethings are kinda vierd
3 Likes
Aside from the bloviating, please tell me how it’s harder to add 1 vehicle model to the game to an existing tree than it is to add 100 vehicle models along with the UI updates.
No. It’s nationalism to demand an independent tech tree for every nation out there that has a few unique modifications of vehicles or a few unique domestic ones. Literally just add them as subtrees, squadron vehicles, or event vehicles.
What do you mean? Is it supposed to be a negative that Israeli vehicles can be spread out across multiple nations to supplement other trees (i.e. Britain and US)?
This is incredibly false, in Poland almost all materials were sent to USSR with nothing coming back. Some could argue Poland would have faring better if they were in the union and got access to some of its benefits, rather than all of its flaws and personal subjugation from leaders that didn’t like Polish people
Have you even looked at any of the tech tree proposals? Poland had plenty of unique vehicles, even during the communist times.
The “cloned vehicles” you talk about almost always had upgrades to fix what was wrong with their Russian counterpart. It wouldn’t be a clone nation, but a much better tech with unique and improved Russian vehicles. Additionally it only really is a “clone tree” in ranks 3-4, which is like that for practically every minor nation in warthunder, even some of the big ones
3 Likes
Gajin only seems to add 3 vehicles per tier in a line (excluding the po2 and ww1 vehicles). Foldering vehicles are also mostly reserved to vehicles that are related to eachother (with some exceptions). This would work with nations with around say 5 additions, not nations with several options across many tiers. Also how was I bloviating? Canada has plenty of vehicles, indigenous or modified, yet we barely see any of them in the tech tree. India has plenty of vehicles but as it’s locked into the UK tree and not in the Israeli tree or independent, it’s relegated to event/premium fodder, minus the copy paste sam’s. Not all trees need an extensive sub tree and for now, the window for the numerous vehicles operated by other nations is shrinking.
Some countries have more than a few that wouldn’t fit elsewhere. Where would Yugoslavia go for example?.Also looking at recent subtrees with a good chunk of them having mostly copy and pasted stuff, I wouldn’t be so optimistic. I’m also not demanding that every nation be independent, rather the largest ones are so they aren’t relegated to being either overpriced premiums or hard to get events.
Yea because if you wanted to specifically play Israeli vehicles, you have to grind many vehicles of no interest to get them and then you wouldn’t be able to even use all of them together. Also where would the Sakeen go for example, it’s a Czech plane, what about the Spyder? To top it off, this would limit the number of indigenous vehicles aswell (South Africa delayed UK made light tanks iirc). Israel still has a good chunk of vehicles (enough for it to receive rank 1,2 and 3 in ground and air) so it would be hard to fit in France, UK, and two of the largest nations in game.
2 Likes
I did- and i researched a bunch of the vehicles.
Note that the author does not have a color code reserved exclusively for original domestic vehicles (i wonder why…). The category that includes actual domestic vehicles also includes vehicles with slight modifications of other vehicles (e.g. the later T-72 mods, including the PT-91s, but there are many more).
A polish tree would be substanitally more copy-paste than not.
There is no such requirement, and I could just as easily argue the contrary position that because there are so many independent trees, Gaijin struggles to flesh out the other independent trees (e.g. Britain, Japan, and Israel).
Most canadian vehicles are modifications. That’s why they aren’t an independent tree.
So what I am hearing is that you think that all these nations, including Poland, should get independent trees because they aren’t represented enough in game, and the only way that they can get the representation they deserve is to have independent trees. (Where have i heard this before?)
Just because you think that they aren’t adding vehicles you want to see fast enough does not mean that the solution is just to add them as a tree. There are plenty of other people who want to see their vehicles represented in game in independent trees as well.
The question is whether these nations are better added as sub-trees, event vehicles, or independent trees. Sorry- I don’t see a strong case for Poland being added as an independent tree based on the copious amount of copy-paste.
Sounds pretty nationalistic to me. Also this could be fixed with a subtree too. vOv
Let’s reevaluate when the author clearly distinguishes original vehicles from modifications of other vehicles. Most independent trees don’t need to combine those categories ( because they actually have a lot of unique, 100% domestically produced vehicles).
Some people just don’t have the time to do that? For example. I want to play insert MBT A from my nation because it’s pretty unique compared to other counter vehicles. But then there’s also insert IFV B which I would like to play from my nation because it’s designed to go with insert MBT A but I can’t because it’s in another tree.
2 Likes
Again, not an issue with sub-trees. Even when they are “breadcrumbed.” You can literally play both, just not in the same match. The problem is that you think that every nation should be consolidated into one exclusive tree- which is not feasible.
You want to play your nation. Not your nation’s vehicles.
Again with the current limits you can’t add a good chunk of these vehicles and also neither USA nor UK nor France nor USSR need a single Israeli vehicle. It’s incredibly short sighted to cut a huge number of vehicles for a very small percentage of that to go to a large tree.
Also it’s nationalism when I think that playing a lineup of two or more vehicles made by the same country makes more sense than just throwing them across trees? Especially when the main recipient has no need for said vehicles? Why would the USA need a Merkava, Spyder, Rochev, Namer etc?
The nation with a fully fledged tree in all areas, two official subtrees and repeat appearances of other countries like Ireland, Canada and Australia? Yes I’d love to see more stuff for the UK but there are plenty of UK and South African options alone for each branch.
I never said I wanted these trees post hast. If time is what’s needed for this then sure. I don’t see the problem of waiting for a new tree if it means we see more unique vehicles overall. It also means that less vehicles will be event/premium locked.
I’m not advocating for every nations independence (as I already said). Some make sense like Scandinavia or the Baltics. If multiple nations need to be stuck together, I’m fine with that as long as the countries go with a theme or connection.
I checked every tree in ground, bluewater, air and coastal and each line only has up 3 vehicles/folders per tier in a line.
Because Canada got breadcrumbed the Canadian leopards are not unlockable in a tree, relegated to either a premium pack or a event box. I’m assuming it will be a lot more than that.
Check the suggestion areas for the main nations, plenty of vehicles to add, even more with existing subtree nations.
Not every nation needs to be swollen with unneeded subtrees until it’s the only thing left. Italy didn’t need to be in Germany and the same with France in the UK. Both now independent nations have brought plenty of domestic vehicles and mods to the game while leaving space for UK and German vehicles.
If Poland needs other nations like Czechoslovakia then so be it, way better than wallowing as mostly premium/event vehicles.
So you just ignored the point?
2 Likes
In the previous post I talked about how I want to play my nations vehicles, and how it would be easier to grind them all if they were all in one place.
Also ignored the my point completely.
2 Likes
Subtree
To whom?
France, USA, Israel, China, Italy and Sweden make no sense
Germany and the USSR clearly don’t need it
UK already has plenty of other nations and again doesn’t need Polish vehicles.
Poland with Czechoslovakia (and possibly Ukraine and the Baltics if needed) is the best option as it adds the most new vehicles while leaving space for everyone else’s indigenous vehicles.
1 Like
What limits???
Yes. But also SUBTREE
UK didn’t get an SPAA this update when most other nations did. Maybe they could have if Gaijin didn’t have to satisfy the needs of 10 different trees. We’ll never know.
Cool. Poland can go to Russia or UK. There is your common theme.
Or we can just spread them out because not every nation needs to be consolidated. Poland included.
Folders did not exist a couple of years ago. Before that there were more than 3 vehicles per line per rank. There is no rule and Gaijin can continue to update the system.
Yes, and by and large most canadian players do not care. If anything they were more annoyed that they went to Germany rather than the UK, but you can count on one hand the number of Canadian players complaining about the lack of an independent Canadian tree because Canada does not produce domestic vehicles.
It’s actually funny that you bring up Italy because Italy should have been a subtree in Germany- but Italy sucked as an independent tree so they literally had to give Italy German vehicles to make it a competitive tree because the Italian players complained. Funny how that works.
I mean if you could read other two colors you could guess or assume what does it mean.
but special offer for you, I will again say it, beacsue I care about special people in our lovely comunity :)
Original - When determines vehicle that was produced from scratch, was heavyli modified that is at least in 50% difrent from what original gives.
example: T-72M1R
Difrences from T-72M1:
- 3rd generation thermals
- better FCS (which means better turret drive and vetrical guidence)
- new tracks and upgraded engine (still good ol 780HP yet it has better acceleration and tracksion)
Is it difrent from the origianl? it is, in at least 50%? kind of.
(other examples: T-72M1Z, BWP/BWO-40, BWP-95, PT-91 Twardy and T-54AM2)
Modified yet nothing changed - Determines vehicles that even tho has been modified in said country in game will be acting the same as other vehicle that is supposably or not be modification of other vehicle.
example: T-55AM “Merida”
Difrences from T-55AM-1 (even tho irl it was modification of T-55A):
- Less powerfull engine but with more tourque (640HP not 690HP)
- better FCS (IRL it worked like in T-80B(or very close to what T-80 FCS could do) if adding better FCS actually would do something i could count it as the “Original”
- more smoke
- Laser Warning System
- Lack of Barrel launched ATGM
It would act same as T-55AM-1 since I don’t thing Gaijin would look into Merida Fire Control System and how it actually made this Tank one of the Best in its class at the time of the production.
Uniqe/Not in other TT - Vehicle that doesn’t have any counterpart/vehicle that can be connected to, and its uniqe in its playstyle by its own
Example: K2GF or Polski Fiat 621L
Listen man, I know you’re trolling or trying to prove something that you really can’t prove or you can’t really put it into words, any time you show up here you get Ratio’ed so hard youi leave and come back later just to grind another topic that you allegedly want to proove yet you can’t. You emberesed yourself about:
and other topics.
You’re trying to find bottom in the bottomless pit or idk find out who cared.
And belive me, if you once again come here just to troll the entirerty of this Topic I will report that to moderation, because even though you try to act smart you come out not so smart or at least not in how you wanted us to understadn. Yes I know that everyone has certain option on something but grinding same thing over and over again makes my head spin, regardless try to put your words better or don’t even bother trying to interact with you.
Hope I got myself clear.
Author of the Tech Tree - RCPl
3 Likes
Also I want produce myself on other things that you’ve wrote while I was writing. I’ll come back to it later
2 Likes