Please stop blockading the 3 German Tanks and Fake Vehicles

Hi, Smin! Forgive me if I take some of your time, but since you’ve interacted with this thread, I’d like to share my perspective with you.

I 100% understand why the vehicles were removed and won’t be going over all the usual arguments (realism, non realism, etc etc) because that discussion just ends up going in circles forever. But allow me to say a few things:

While it’s a subjective consideration, the German Patton is ultimately just that… a Patton. There are more than enough in this game and it’s frankly to be expected that purely in terms of gameplay people don’t think about them as equivalent.

The problem with the Panther II and Tiger II 105 imho is just the fact that the designs were a mash up of different proposals. There are other, better options for replacements - like the real world Panther II, and possibly the E-50 and E-75 designs if they can be introduced in a more “grounded” and less fantasy approach.

No doubt. Minor nations should always get priority where possible IMHO because they genuinely have lineup gaps that need filling. This isn’t a “need” or anything of the kind, just something that would be “nice”.

And this is completely understandable. Because that would be a can of worms that nobody should want to see opened.

But please, do keep in mind that this means that the removed vehicles are very common. I play a lot around that BR range, and I see them almost every day.

Seeing a rare vehicle you don’t own is completely normal in War Thunder. However, usually, there is a pathway to getting that vehicle eventually. GE, or pack, or squadron, or marketplace, or even a lootbox crate, or a tournament in cases like the E-100. Not in this case, though… and that’s pretty sad, because they look fun to play, at the end of the day.

So, this is where I suppose my question comes in. Why not make these removed vehicles tradeable on the marketplace? If no new coupons are ever created, that means that the total number of Panther II and Tiger II 105 in the game would remain the same as it is now. But I know there are players who unlocked them way back in the day and simply don’t play them or haven’t even spaded them, and would like to sell them on the market if possible - and players like me, who would certainly buy them.

It would basically just be an optimisation, because while the total number of vehicles stays the same, at least they can be redistributed to people who want to play them.

A few more possible ideas put forward by CC TheEuropeanCanadian on YouTube are also ones that I like tbh… such as allowing players who have researched and spaded an entire tech tree to access a removed vehicle, even if at an enormous SL cost. Or to access and “assemble” blueprints for removed vehicles from the warbond shop. Or unlock them with a “prestige” system (say, reaching “lvl 100” five times or whatever the exact number would be).

This wouldn’t be just for the removed German vehicles obviously, but for any such cases in the game… it would give high-level players something to stride towards, a late game objective with a big reward at the end.

Just my two cents anyway. Apologies for the long message, and I don’t expect it to be actioned or anything like that, but hopefully it’s useful food for thought if nothing else.

Cheers!

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Hello

Generally we are always looking at ways to make older event vehicles and past obtainable vehicles available again in some ways from time to time with a few exceptions (platform exclusives, promotional etc).

The German vehicles currently fall into those exceptions for the time being as they were removed for a reason (which we outlined at the time and you mentioned above). For the considerable foreseeable future, we don’t have any plans to return them right now.

That’s unfortunately all we can say on the matter right now.

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Honestly, makes sense why they were removed.

If they are ever comming back id assume it would be in the same way the Maus does every year around halloween as researchable vehicles.

To keep the removed fakes available id want to see them return as “ghosts” of a past that did not exist and remind us of the horros of fake vehicles that were once in Warthunder.

The same way the Maus returns in hords around halloween to make us thankfull they are a rare occurrence these days.

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To take your Pz.IV example, no, it is not in a WW2 setting. It sits at a BR that is generally populated by WW2 vehicles and largely fights in maps based on WW2 esque locations.
It is not a WW2 setting as you claim because a fair amount of post-war/CW vehicles are present at these BRs as well as some maps that most definitely aren’t fitting with the WW2 theme (Cargo Port for example).
Not sure where you are pulling the M48 from when I never mentioned the vehicle in this conversation. You act like I wish to see Pz.IV fight that thing when I am very vocal in the fact that this doesn’t make sense…
I also don’t get the idea that 6.7 is a WW2 BR when this is where the line between WW2 and post/Cold War gets muddied…
You’re honestly fighting ghosts in that regard.

Quote where I said the M48 was a replacement for the removed vehicles, then the conversation can be taken seriously.

I understand, no problem and thanks for the answer!

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I know that, im just saying that if those vehicles are still in the game everybody or at least every german player should be able to obtain them in some way, even if they’re worth thousands of dollars in the marketplace.

Since we all want to make the game fair, it should only be right to not restrict those vehicles to certain people that were active when it was announced that they would be removed.

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Multiple wrongs do not make a right.

The only tank removals I disagree with are the Flakpanzer and Maus. The Panther II and 10.5 cm are completely ahistorical tanks that have no place in War Thunder. You may try to nitpick and point out vehicles like the Ho-Ri Production and R2Y2 V2-V3. Well, they should be removed as well, with the former being replaced by the Ho-Ri II. War Thunder aspires to be a historically accurate game, so while some liberties can be taken for the sake of balance, if you want fake tanks go play WoT.

“I agree that nobody should just make something up, but when there is any historical Background on it, then we should have the right to have it added.”

You need to better define what a historical background should be. By your logic we may as well have the Flakpanzer E-100.

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Precisely because of this, removing the vehicles from new players does not rectify the original mistake - two wrongs don’t make a right. After all, the vehicles are still in the game, and are also very prominent and widely used; at that BR range, I see them on a daily basis, so in terms of “protecting the historicity of the game” this is already a non-solution, always has been.

Removing from existing players is obviously a no go. So, after the original error to introduce the Frankenstein designs was made, imho the only truly corrective solution was simply to edit the vehicles and change them into more grounded interpretations of blueprint designs worked on by real engineers, while leaving them in the tech tree.

It’s not like altering existing vehicles in a tech tree hasn’t been done before.

Yeah, I think one point that often escapes these discussions is that paper vehicle and made up vehicle are not actually the same thing. The Krankvagn is paper. The Jagdpanzer E-100 is a fabrication.

I don’t really think it does. It markets itself that way in a style that is broadly acceptable to a good average of people when looked at superficially. That’s beside the point you make though, which is well made. In good history there is room for exploration of good alternate history as well, and the Ho Ri II, Tiger II 105 and Panther II, are not good alternate history vehicles.

I do wish they would come back because they look fun to play, but yeah. Replacing them would be even better.

I definitely think WT should add paper vehicles, but as you said paper =/= napkin drawings nor “what-if” designs.

And I do think War Thunder tries to recreate vehicles to a high level of accuracy and appeal to the interest in the history of many people.

No vehicle should be hidden away for any reason in my eyes. I own all three and want newer players to be able to use them. A Tiger II with a rangefinder unlock, better engine, and a gun that can overpressure is just so much better its not even funny.

The “King Panther” as I like to call the Panther II is in a league of its own, though I really wish uninstalling the NVD modification physically removed that eyesore NVD scope from the hull front.

And since the 37mm Flak has no APCR, we haven’t even seen the Coelian’s true power yet.

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Fake vehicles, absolutely not. That’s WoT’s thing. I don’t want WT to invent vehicles.

Panther II could come back if they split it into different vehicles instead of the Frankstein it currently is. As the Panther II hull was built it falls under the new partial prototype category in the suggestion thread.

Flakpanzer 341 I have no issues with, it falls under the new partial prototype category.

Tiger II (10.5 cm Kw.K) is the same as Panther II, it needs to be split into multiple vehicles. It’s a Frankstein of multiple projects. Though the issue here, at least as far as I’m aware, this is 100% paper.

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You know an agonizing Gaijin isn’t going to bring it back. You give them a reason to not even bother passing the info to the Developers simply because you prefer to go around rules and staff who said no.

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