Vehicle classification is a balancing decision for spawn points.
SPAA = Objectively best class.
SPG = Great class.
Light = Middle class.
Medium = middle class.
Heavy = worst class.
It’s why you see people begging for 2S38 to be buffed with the SPAA role.
Some vehicles used to be classified in a different way. For example, the M18 used to be classified as a tank destroyer back in the day. Gaijin made it a light tank for some reason.
Yes this is what I’ve heard, arguably making it better as it now has Scouting in addition to its mobility.
Yes and I’m saying that using vehicle class as a balancing tool is wrong, or at least has been used poorly in the past. More points = bad, and less points = good is a simplistic system for spawn balancing ground vehicles.
I hate the 2S38 as much as the next guy but it is inarguably an SPAA in real life. Would it somehow become unplayable as an SPAA at a higher BR?
I always found this argument that an SPG and a Tank Destroyer are not the same. Many SPGs"s are in fact. Tank destroyers are intentionally classified as an SPG to bypass certain rules made at the time that restricted it.
In the case of SPGs that are incorrectly called Tank Destroyers, it would be only a rename rather than a class change, in the same way that ATGM carriers are called “Anti-tank missile carrier” but are still Tank Destroyers by class.
Example;
It’s just about accessibility to new players, basically. They’re classed the way they are so that someone can pick them up, knowing nothing about them historically, and at least have some idea of what they’re doing.
The M18 is the principle example of this. When newer players see a TD, and especially if they’re just playing the US line, they’re going to be used to the idea of TDs as large, unmaueverable snipers with solid guns. If they try to play the M18 in the exact same way, it’s going to suffer. But call it a light tank, something like the M24, and more people are going to have an easier time understanding how to use it.
This goes for double when we’re talking about the Flak Bus and QF 3.7 Ram. Imagine someone picking those up and honestly attempting to use them as an SPAA first and foremost.
While it would be good to have historically accurate labels, it’s not that important at the end of the day.
2S38’s current BR is already balanced, and it’s as much a light tank as it is SPAA IRL.
On top of that, vehicles are given a class in-game that they did IRL.
M18 WAS used as a light tank, and a SPG/tank destroyer [they meant the same thing in WW2 for Britain, USSR, and USA militaries].
The M901 is a recon vehicle IRL with anti-tank capability.
Your point about accessibility for new players is important, but I think it can only really be judged to apply to the 8.8 Flak and 3.7 Ram.
Basically a new player who is not familiar with the vehicle outside of War Thunder may need to be told what to shoot at eg. ground vehicles, or air vehicles. Using the M18 as an example it would be quite evident in either LT or TD class that the duty of the M18 is to engage ground vehicles, and assuming that new players will somehow be confused by a fast TD is a little far-reaching.
New players become intermediate players fairly quickly, and vehicles such as the M18 or below are quite quickly spaded. There is no point incorrectly classifying such a vehicle because the player may somehow be confused as to what it’s for or how best to use it, that is part of the familiarisation process.
I’ll argue with you about this one until the cows come home. M18 is a TD, the reclassification as LT is a non-historical Gaijin-ism.
Edit; are you confusing the M901 ITV with the M981 FISTV? Similarly to the FV102 Striker, it could easily be argued that the M901 is an ATGM carrier with reconnaissance duties, and should have Scouting applied while still a TD.
I am friends with an M901 operator, and there are many many instances of WW2’s “tank destroyer [SPG]” group doing recon for troops and other armored divisions.
Again, just cause the military gives it a public facing name doesn’t mean that is its sole use.
Wikipedia is also not a source.
To ensure that I am clearly understood, I’ll reduce this to a list;
Vehicle classification in game is not claimed to be or stated as the “historical” designation of that vehicle in real life. As a whole this subject in real life is open to interpretation, as what one nation calls a “heavy” tank is a “medium” to others, and much the same with several other classes.
In War Thunder Its simply an in-game classification defining how that vehicle is played or more importantly, its spawn point cost for gameplay purposes. Any player new or old to the game, inexperienced or not can simply understand a glance the general type of gameplay to expect from this vehicle. Its not a representation of real life vehicle classification and is not intended to be. As such, it is entirely correct that such matters are not accepted as bug reports.
You say that but I can name two opposite ends of this spectrum
Alternatively you have the German 6.0 duo.
Tiger I: Pretty reasonable armour for a heavy tank. Really Reasonably mobility. Really high firepower.
Panther F: Reasonably Armour comparable to a heavy. Good mobility. High Firepower.
And what about the Panther D and prototype? Panther D is played moreso as a heavy tank destroyer than a medium because of the turret traverse and the Prototype is just less armoured but more mobile.
This will always be open to personal interpretations. However both of those cases fit their in game classifications.
How do you go about requesting a vehicles designation changed?
FRS1 is the one that I want to see changes to a naval fighter and it would actually be a meaningful and important change given it’s our only fighter at that BR.
If you want to spawn into the FRS1e/FRS1 before or after Spawning in something like the Jaguar GR1A or Buc S2B, the cost more than doubles due to all 3 being considered Strike Aircraft. Despite the fact that the FRS1 primary role IRL was air interception and its most famous role was CAP
There’s one big problem:
Due to the doctrinal approaches of certain countries and arbitrary classification, vehicles people know far and wide to be a tank destroyer - and they may have even specifically picked that nation to play that tank destroyer - cannot be used to complete battlepass tasks and challenges requiring tank destroyers.
Due to this arbitrary classifcation, rank 3 Britain has no means to do battlepass tasks requiring TDs (at least until recently with the M44 being added). This is despite the fact that the avenger is known to be a Gun motor carriage AND is the direct follower of the Achilles in the tank destroyer line and plays exactly the same as the achilles.
If the Achilles can be a tank destroyer, why can’t the avenger? They’re effectively the same gameplay style and are each other’s direct heirs. Both are vulnerable to strafing and overpressure too due to open tops.
clearly not as the Wiesel 1a4 is never played as an SPAA yet it has that class. In game its played as a rat light tank, not an SPAA.