New battleships in a nutshell

[Kweedko]

@HK_Reporter

You have exact same effect in the game, shells may destroy/damage/not damage the module behind the deck/bulkhead depending on position of detonation, even just a tiny shift in position can result in completely different outcome:

No you can’t test shots in hangar is bugged and lying, that is what may proposal also about. Test in game also provide that there is big difference between test shots in hangar and in game matches.
literally this shell killed al the modules on the way and done no damage by explosion.

And here it in hangar Soyz you can’t do that in game armored deck will consume all shrapnel. In test shots there is no bulkheads or decks.

@HK_Reporter

To put it simple, blast effect has high penetration up to 60~70mm but attenuates extremely quick over distance, fragmentation does not lose penetration over distance very much but can be stopped by virtually anything thicker than 1 inch. There’re plenty of hidden ship internal structures in the game that can stop these fragments, and crew compartments has thickness too so they can stop/contain fragments as well.

In test shot they penned but in game shots they don’t.

@HK_Reporter

Most of them were scanned/photographed from UK National Archives and were not available to read online.

Then that is cherry-picking without access to sources. So can’t be rational to use them without context of whole research provided in those documents his goals and conclusions. And even if we use them they told use on this screen that and bulkheads and decks should be penned by explosions and shrapnel.

@HK_Reporter

and crew compartments has thickness too so they can stop/contain fragments as well

This is the problem too, it should be fixed. As that fact that armor penning in naval doesn’t provide shrapnel as in ground matches.

[굴러온]

@Kweedko

And here it in hangar Soyz you can’t do that in game armored deck will consume all shrapnel. In test shots there is no bulkheads or decks.

Where you’re pointing right now is under the armoured deck where shell room poisitions. Hitting there will do absoulte damage even in battle

[Kweedko]

Shells in naval use this preset of shrapnel.

"ap_large_caliber": {
    "residualPenetrationToArmorShatterPenetrationMult": [
      20.0,
      70.0,
      0.2,
      1.0
    ],
    "residualPenetrationToArmorShatterDamageMult": [
      20.0,
      70.0,
      0.1,
      1.0
    ],
    "residualPenetrationToShellShatterPenetrationMult": [
      20.0,
      70.0,
      0.2,
      1.0
    ],
    "residualPenetrationToShellShatterDamageMult": [
      20.0,
      70.0,
      0.1,
      1.0
    ],
    "armorMassToShatterCount": [
      0.5,
      10.0,
      20.0,
      100.0
    ],
    "shellMassToShatterCount": [
      1.0,
      40.0,
      10.0,
      100.0
    ],
    "section_shellShatters0": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        10.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "shellShatter": true,
        "distance": 6.0,
        "size": 0.08,
        "countPortion": 0.1,
        "penetration": [
          18.0,
          15.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          45.0,
          40.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 3.0
      }
    },
    "section_shellShatters1": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        20.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "shellShatter": true,
        "distance": 5.0,
        "size": 0.03,
        "countPortion": 0.3,
        "penetration": [
          12.0,
          11.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          20.0,
          17.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 0.0
      }
    },
    "section_shellShatters2": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        45.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "shellShatter": true,
        "distance": 3.0,
        "size": 0.01,
        "countPortion": 0.6,
        "penetration": [
          5.0,
          4.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          7.0,
          5.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 0.0
      }
    },
    "section_armorShatters0": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        20.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "distance": 5.0,
        "size": 0.05,
        "countPortion": 0.4,
        "penetration": [
          15.0,
          13.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          30.0,
          25.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 2.0
      }
    },
    "section_armorShatters1": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        40.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "distance": 3.0,
        "size": 0.03,
        "countPortion": 0.6,
        "penetration": [
          8.0,
          7.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          15.0,
          12.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 2.0
      }
    }
  },

while bombs and ground shells use this one(that’s why bombs damage way better that shells in naval modes)

"ap": {
    "residualArmorPenetrationToShatterCountMult": [
      20.0,
      100.0,
      0.5,
      1.0
    ],
    "residualArmorPenetrationToShatterPenetrationMult": [
      20.0,
      100.0,
      0.6,
      1.0
    ],
    "residualArmorPenetrationToShatterDamageMult": [
      20.0,
      100.0,
      0.4,
      1.0
    ],
    "caliberToArmorToShatterCountMult": [
      0.5,
      1.0,
      0.5,
      1.0
    ],
    "section0": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        10.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "distance": 5.0,
        "size": 0.05,
        "count": 8,
        "penetration": [
          11.0,
          8.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          20.0,
          15.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 1.3
      }
    },
    "section1": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        25.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "distance": 3.0,
        "size": 0.025,
        "count": 20,
        "penetration": [
          7.0,
          5.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          15.0,
          12.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 1.0
      }
    },
    "section2": {
      "angles": [
        0.0,
        40.0
      ],
      "shatter": {
        "size": 0.01,
        "distance": 1.5,
        "count": 40,
        "penetration": [
          4.0,
          3.0
        ],
        "damage": [
          8.0,
          6.0
        ],
        "onHitChanceMultFire": 1.0
      }
    }
  },

Clearly there is small pen on naval ones, and smaller coefficients.

[굴러온]

It is not meaning of sharpnel, its where you pointed in hanagar is actually Soyuz’s shell room in dm. If you shoot there in game, it explodes too.

Also do note that ground shell and bombs’ sharpnel’s are exaggerated ingame.

[Kweedko]

@굴러온

Also do note that ground shell and bombs’ sharpnel’s are exaggerated ingame.

Or naval underrated. Considering bombs were nerfed not so long ago.

[굴러온]

Nah, they are still, especially in penetration, too high. I can’t remember how exactly old it was(as it was in legacy forum I can’t even find it onow), but developers saids HE penetration is overperfoming purposely.

[Kweedko]

@굴러온

but developers saids HE penetration is overperfoming purposely

considering that was on old forum that changed a lot during the passed years.

[굴러온]

Penetration didn’t change much. Only at a shell of battleships. And still, as HK reporter upload real life test result, fragment and HE penetration is still too high compared to real life.

And as I said, your problem about Soyuz’s hangar view would come from where you point at hangar and where you really hit ingame. I don’t have problem exploding shell room ingame, as I posted screenshots.

[Kweedko]

@굴러온

And still, as HK reporter upload real life test result, fragment and HE penetration is still too high compared to real life.

Those “test results” were either cherrypicked as for this one sure shrapnel of 300mm or even 283 mm shot can’t penetrate 10 cm main deck. On most of them you don’t even know what shell used.

Or unrelated as for Baden which were shorted by pre WW1 shells or experimental shells.

That’s why you need access to source to know what shell are used, what tests provided. Whiteout that you could just pick those screens and photos that suit your argument and ignore that didn’t suit.

[굴러온]

@Kweedko

Or unrelated as for Baden which were shorted by pre WW1 shells or experimental shells.

I’m very pessimistic on Baden test as it got seriously misinterpreted and leads to many bad conclusion for Royal Navy after decade, among one is famous decision of using light shell.

Finding shell’s explosive filler does limited damage on armored bulkhead, thus reducing explosive filler and focusing on bigger fragments that able to breach armored bulkhead was common trend on navies around 1920s and 1930s after they’ve done test they done on 1910s and 20s(RN - baden, IJN - Tosa, USN - Washington).

Already damage in war thunder naval is exaggerated due to convenient gameplay. WW2 experiences shows that mostly cases, sinking enemy capital ship wouldn’t enough with sole gunfighting. Torpedo usually done the critical part.

[굴러온]

@HK_Reporter Besides, there are no plan for developers to change most of ships ingame’s hull HP section to those of Nevada and Marat?

Unsinkability lost is very unpleasant personally, and those change could give Unsinkability experinece much less, and it’s actually realistic than current ‘whole hull’ HP section.

[Kweedko]

@굴러온

Already damage in war thunder naval is exaggerated due to convenient gameplay. WW2 experiences shows that mostly cases, sinking enemy capital ship wouldn’t enough with sole gunfighting.

Or would, it may be survivor mistake. Everybody talks about capitals but how many DDs HC LC being blown up to smithereens during war(and not always by BB). IRL even capitals withstand crucial damage just from less then dozens of big hits while in game the can consume hundreds of them.

[warhead_beast]

@Kweedko

Those “test results” were either cherrypicked as for this one sure shrapnel of 300mm or even 283 mm shot can’t penetrate 10 cm main deck. On most of the you don’t even know what shell used.

Have you actually read the information in the picture?
It is quite clear how different shell types would behave and what caliber this hit is. (In short: a 12 inch HE shell)
Also this isn’t a hit from a Test but a damage report of a hit received by HMS Tiger during the battle of Jutland.

[warhead_beast]

@굴러온

Already damage in war thunder naval is exaggerated due to convenient gameplay. WW2 experiences shows that mostly cases, sinking enemy capital ship wouldn’t enough with sole gunfighting.

The bigger thing is the short engagement range and way easier aim which leads to more hits being scored. IRL Battleship on Battleship engagements were conducted at longer range but more importantly range finding and fire control were obvious not as easy and accurate as in game so hits scored were way rarer

[Kweedko]

@warhead_beast

It is quite clear how different shell types would behave

Quiet clear by the 5 pictures from the internet without original source, yeah sure. It just like consider SU metallurgy during the WW2 by single pamphlet from the 90 about one armor test for Soyz(btw. it was done for the metallurgists, to check and improve quality of plates production methods).

Current ingame damage model of the ships is far from ideal and should be improved. As for shells performance too.

[굴러온]

@Kweedko

but how many DDs HC LC being blown up to smithereens during war(and not always by BB).

Most of them are sunk by torpedoes, not gunfire, only strengthning my opinion.

[굴러온]

I’ll put more on the exaggerated shell damage, existence of crew compartment, shell room detonation(which happen irl by continuous fire, not with direct hit of shell) than ‘short engagement range’.

Case of Kirishima and Bismarck clearly shows engagement range doesn’t relate to ship’s unsinkability against shell.

[warhead_beast]

@굴러온

Case of Kirishima and Bismarck clearly shows engagement range doesn’t relate to ship’s unsinkability against shell.

Well it does, mainly because the way a ships protection is designed. In game battles usually take place well within ranges the protection systems were not designed for, therefore the ships are generally more vulnerable.

Like I said before the major part is the volume of shells. If you look at battle reports, you will never read a number of hits you can achieve in game. Per example during the battle of the North cape Scharnhorst recived 13 14" hits which took her completely out of action, in a time span of multiple hours. If you would play this battle out in game you would get to 13 hits in 2 minutes max.

If you look at the battle of Jutland, it’s rare to see a ship receive over 10 hits. Yet in game receiving >10 hits to your ship is nothing special

[Thodin]

@warhead_beast

If you look at the battle of Jutland, it’s rare to see a ship receive over 10 hits. Yet in game receiving >10 hits to your ship is nothing special

Ingame the ship would be mostly out of action as well (after 10+ main cal hits), but there’s the repair funktion to fix everything in a few secs. Its a game.

[Kweedko]

@Thodin

Ingame the ship would be mostly out of action as well (after 10+ main cal hits)

In what reality? In game you could receive hundreds of them in a long match and still survive.