Namer armor

[Just_Baron]

It can hardly stop DM23…

[Armen_Lozone]

@Just_Baron

Israel makes most of the DM projectiles

yeah probably why they dont expect to be hit by their own ammo lol

@Just_Baron

this hit shows that kornet or whatever it was (HEAT warheads dont cause deflection scars) obviously hit at a very extreme angle. as you can see the carved armour goes upwards with the collapsed plate.
so its either an extreme angle shot or it isnt exactly a kornet. (ive seen too many cases of mis identified attacking weapons/ammunitions).

while it is obviously not as accurate in game as irl, the capabilities of the merkavas protection seem waay overblown in my opinion.

@Just_Baron

• Trophy Reaction Speed is too slow.

im sure there are sources from the producer about this no?

@Just_Baron

Merkava is missing its IRST tracking for the HE shell.

all MBTs are

@Just_Baron

Weight is wrong. Should be 80 tons.

agreed

[Armen_Lozone]

i am not opposed to that

[Just_Baron]

@Armen_Lozone

yeah probably why they dont expect to be hit by their own ammo lol

But they actively do testing against their own ammunition?

@Armen_Lozone

this hit shows that kornet or whatever it was (HEAT warheads dont cause deflection scars) obviously hit at a very extreme angle. as you can see the carved armour goes upwards with the collapsed plate.
so its either an extreme angle shot or it isnt exactly a kornet. (ive seen too many cases of mis identified attacking weapons/ammunitions).

The Merkava can’t even stop a Kornet projectile in-game after it’s been hit by Trophy. That’s sad and wrong.

@Armen_Lozone

while it is obviously not as accurate in game as irl, the capabilities of the merkavas protection seem waay overblown in my opinion.

I disagree. Israel is on the forefront of Military Technology. Many countries use their technology. SLERA is one of the most advanced armors in the world. There’s a reason why the Merkava tanks take hits from missiles so much better than Leopards and Abrams. Their armor coverage is just better due to the weight.

@Armen_Lozone

im sure there are sources from the producer about this no?

There is, but the bruchure page has been removed.

Trophy APS should have higher target speed // Gaijin.net // Issues

Gaijin has acknowledged it for 2 years though.

@Armen_Lozone

all MBTs are

Kinda. The Merkava has a special mode, not called IRST.

Merkava 3B - 4M should have OTT (Optical Target Tracking) // Gaijin.net // Issues

It’s called OTT and has also been acknowledged for 2 years.

[Armen_Lozone]

@Just_Baron

But they actively do testing against their own ammunition?

Possibly… you would be the expert im kinda working on deduction here lol.

@Just_Baron

The Merkava can’t even stop a Kornet projectile in-game after it’s been hit by Trophy. That’s sad and wrong.

Gaijin has proven incapable of making APS work. They always suffer from ping and the HEAT pre detonating

@Just_Baron

There’s a reason why the Merkava tanks take hits from missiles so much better than Leopards and Abrams.

CE?
Yes
KE?
Im not inclined to beleive it as much.

@Just_Baron

It’s called OTT and has also been acknowledged for 2 years.

Yeah but sadly all sorts of target tracking (present even on the earlier leos and abrams etc are not implemented for ‘balance’

[Just_Baron]

@Armen_Lozone

Possibly… you would be the expert im kinda working on deduction here lol.

While it is true that I’m extremely invested, even I’m not omniscient.

@Armen_Lozone

Gaijin has proven incapable of making APS work. They always suffer from ping and the HEAT pre detonating

To a degree, yeah. Even then, the reaction speed is labeled 400 meters a second too slow, I believe.

@Armen_Lozone

CE?
Yes
KE?
Im not inclined to beleive it as much.

Merkava 4 (all) armor values too low and mislabeled. // Gaijin.net // Issues

This bug report has been accepted involving how the front is biased for Kinetic while the sides are biased for Chemical. It breaks it down much better than I can.

@Armen_Lozone

Yeah but sadly all sorts of target tracking (present even on the earlier leos and abrams etc are not implemented for ‘balance’

Even if it’s not for tanks, it would be nice to have to combat helicopters.

[Armen_Lozone]

my reason for thinking that Kornets could actually penetrate a large area of the merk is because its a tandem warhead and as we know all types of reactive armour dont fare well against tandem.

the one picture you shared…

@Just_Baron

this one…
i beleive this is showing a NxRA armour system.
it would have an inert layer between two RHA layers. this i would call a NxRA cell. a NxRA battery (as probably shown here) would be a series of such cells with multiple layers.

There is obviously no inner explosive layer here or the reaction wouldve shown signs. i think the first time i saw this i called this a heat or HE shell blast but it seems like a penetration hole with a significant upwards blast mark. im puzzled what kind of weapon makes such a mark unless the layer we see was originally much more angled than now (probably due to the impact etc).

@Just_Baron

Even if it’s not for tanks, it would be nice to have to combat helicopters.

i think currently only IFVs and SPAA have IRST or target tracking for air units only. helicopters and TGP equipped aircraft have ground target tracking based on TV, IR or radar but thats pretty much it. i would love tanks (MBTs) to have target tracking whether optical or IR (its usually both).

also one small… actually its a pretty significant issue.

if you take two shells that both penetrate… suppose 400mm…
but theyre not the same shell they wont show equal penetration in the WT penetration calculator. it took me a while to realise this but the system calculates parameters separately for each shell according to its back-end density etc variables so even two shells of 120mm fired at 1600m/s penning 400mm in the statcard will perform different on the same piece of armour.

[Armen_Lozone]

a helpful piece i found.
however, the patent used by the report states little about relations to merkava and admits to less effectiveness than pure ERA.

[Just_Baron]

@Armen_Lozone

this one…
i beleive this is showing a NxRA armour system.
it would have an inert layer between two RHA layers. this i would call a NxRA cell. a NxRA battery (as probably shown here) would be a series of such cells with multiple layers.

There is obviously no inner explosive layer here or the reaction wouldve shown signs. i think the first time i saw this i called this a heat or HE shell blast but it seems like a penetration hole with a significant upwards blast mark. im puzzled what kind of weapon makes such a mark unless the layer we see was originally much more angled than now (probably due to the impact etc).

The armor reads explosive on it. And in this image, the explosive charge has been used. This is Raphael’s patented SLERA.

It also has bolts that are typically associated with reactive armor instead of NERA.

@Armen_Lozone

if you take two shells that both penetrate… suppose 400mm…
but theyre not the same shell they wont show equal penetration in the WT penetration calculator. it took me a while to realise this but the system calculates parameters separately for each shell according to its back-end density etc variables so even two shells of 120mm fired at 1600m/s penning 400mm in the statcard will perform different on the same piece of armour.

When I said I think the armor should degrade, it would basically just mean it has a certain health amount to draw from that each shell would damage and chip away at. It wouldn’t be arcadey, but rather just a durability thing.

Since the armor is kinda meant to take a huge hit from the strongest ground-based missiles we have in-game at least once on the front pieces at least

@Armen_Lozone

a helpful piece i found.
however, the patent used by the report states little about relations to merkava and admits to less effectiveness than pure ERA.

This document is labeled as 2001, which would likely mean it’s from an early version of SLERA. The Merkava Mk.4A wasn’t very good.

The modern Merkava Mk.4M or even the Mk.5 have way better armor.

[Armen_Lozone]

@Just_Baron

armor reads explosive on it. And in this image, the explosive charge has been used. This is Raphael’s patented SLERA.

is it possible that only the direct frontal arc has the SLERA?

@Just_Baron

Since the armor is kinda meant to take a huge hit from the strongest ground-based missiles we have in-game at least once on the front pieces at least

fair but as admitted by the patent itself, SLERA is no where near as effective on single hits as ERA. its more focused on durability towards multiple hits (as is reflected by the IDF doctrine against rpg-like weapons)

@Just_Baron

This document is labeled as 2001

ye just sharing it for the info lol

[Just_Baron]

@Armen_Lozone

is it possible that only the direct frontal arc has the SLERA?

Just_Baron:

Not really. The sides are made of the same stuff, but they’re a bit thinner overall. The front is around 600-800mm LOS of sight while the hull sides are 400mm LOS and the Turret sides are probably around 500-600mm LOS.

The Front plate might be the only bit that isn’t SLERA, though I could be wrong about that part.

Merkava 4 (all) armor values too low and mislabeled. // Gaijin.net // Issues

I’ll link back to this cause it’s a solid bug report.

@Armen_Lozone

fair but as admitted by the patent itself, SLERA is no where near as effective on single hits as ERA. its more focused on durability towards multiple hits (as is reflected by the IDF doctrine against rpg-like weapons)

A lot can change in 20 years. Just think of how far computers have come since then. The way that SLERA tends to work is that it’s basically just ERA that doesn’t get detonated easily on weaker warheads. The ERA part of the armor is designed to activate only when the armor is penetrated past it’s NERA shell.

@Armen_Lozone

ye just sharing it for the info lol

And yes, but the armor was known to have flaws 2 decades ago.

There’s a huge gap in armor effectiveness between the 4A and 4B and up.

[Tactical_ra1nbow]

@Just_Baron

Secondly, the difference between the Mk.1 and the Mk.4 is not 4 tons like Gaijin thinks. Every Merkava has the wrong weight and wrong armor modifiers

Is there any source of information about that?

[Just_Baron]

Common Sense.

Also, the IDF themselves.

(5) איך מזיזים טנק ששוקל 80 טון??? | צה״ל - YouTube

Here’s the IDF directly claiming it’s 80 tons.

[LightningMoon33]

Bruh how do we get them to actually do something with the merks armor i mean like comon gaijoob
:((( theres so much proof of it being more than it is ingame

[captainistaken]

You also can see that it says on the armor נפיץ which means explosive

[LightningMoon33]

maybe if we spam reports on the issues site it will grab their attention?

[captainistaken]

There also is a article in a Israeli news website that says the merkava weighs 80 tons
https://www.mako.co.il/pzm-soldiers/Article-76f97397e975d61027.htm

[Just_Baron]

I have a bunch but Gaijin won’t accept them because they aren’t “manuals”.

I’d like to know wherever the fuck Gaijin got 65.5 tons though

[LightningMoon33]

official MoD website says the mk4 is 65

https://www.mod.gov.il/Defence-and-Security/merkava/Pages/generations.aspx
translated from hebrew says 65 tonnes

[captainistaken]

Gaijin is abusing the fact that some sources negate each other. Here is the information that says that merkava 4 weighs 65 tons on Israeli armored corps museum’s website

אתר יד לשריון מרכבה yad lashiyon merkava