No, but the internal armor is much older.
Unless I’m wrong, only the add on armor is D tech. The internal armor of a 2A7 is still the same as that of a 2A4, no?
Even then, the Israeli SLERA armor is a much more aggressive. It’s larger and costs more to build. Considering the Bundeswehr has issues modernizing compared to Israel, I doubt their armor is more effective.
So what do you say? should i open a report about it?
I’d personally suggest someone with more insight into Israel and Hebrew did it. I can’t really read Hebrew and only understand small phrases. If it wasn’t for older mentions of these, I wouldn’t have found them.
Im a Merkava gunner, but i cant really provide legit sources cuz they arent declassified. I can only use what you use.
The ones from the IDF’s social media themselves should be enough proof to Gaijin theoretically.
I’d say go for it. They might be enough to convince them with.
Also, slight side note, if you have any evidence of the Namer’s side armor being stronger than it is in-game, I’d appreciate that.
An up-close of the Namer’s rear door would be nice as well. Gaijin seems to think it’s hollow.
Do you have any damaged Namer side armour photos?
Unfortunately, that’s pretty much impossible to find even for me.
I remember seeing a busted rear door in Gaza back in november, it didnt look like it had any NERA or SLERA inside, just pure cast metal, So they pretty much nailed the back doors, the only area i do not get hit at ingame.
Every damaged Namer i encountered was hit from the back only.
Why would 2A7s armour be the same as 2A4s when even 2A5s & 2A6s received new inserts?
KMW in fact outright states it has a “Revised Passive Armour Package” to differentiate it from previous, less armour variants. I’ll be blunt, you’re very much wrong.
Considering the Bundeswehr has issues modernizing compared to Israel, I doubt their armor is more effective.
“I made it up.”
To be honest, I’m not really that knowledgeable on many Main Battle Tanks since information can be hard to find. It’s also often unreliable.
If that’s the case, I’d love to have some information on it. I enjoy reading into it.
I’m also not sure I understand this. The Bundeswehr struggles to modernizes due to a fluctuating and inconsistent budget. The Germans also don’t want to be seen as a militarized state due to certain circumstances.
As an example, the German Eurocopters are almost all entirely grounded, and most Leopards aren’t combat ready. This is a well-known problem.
Armours are by far some of the cheapest upgrades when it comes to MBTs. The basis for your argument is downright silly; “oh they haven’t got money or will to simultaneously upgrade morbillion tanks into a single homogenous variant, that surely must mean their armour isn’t as effective as [insert X country].” (which in itself… is a logical fallacy).
As an example, the German Eurocopters are almost all entirely grounded, and most Leopards aren’t combat ready. This is a well-known problem.
A well-know problem from… 2015? You’re not keeping up with the times, considering in 2022, Germany’s Leopard 2 fleet had a 80%+ readiness rate, and their EFT fleet had higher readiness rates than US’ F-16 fleet, etc. Heck, even their KHT fleet had a whopping 70%+ rate! What was Israels by comparison, have you any data?
I never said they couldn’t afford good armor, but I did state that it’s likely less advanced than Israel’s armor due to an overall military budget difference. For example, the armor being made isn’t the only part of the cost. Research and Development is also very important.
I know people from the Bundeswehr. Only recently in the last few years has the German Military Industry begun to step up. In terms of Development, they’re still lacking in many ways. Similarly to Britain, they struggle with supply lines and Maintenace.
It’s just a result of the Cold War mostly dying off.
I’m not really sure where you’ve got your data, but it doesn’t seem correct. If it was correct, then Germany wouldn’t have needed to vastly increase their military spending in the last two years.
This isn’t even conjecture, it’s a speculation (if it can be called that!) pulled out of the void based on ???
Have you any idea of how large Germany’s budget is in comparison to Israels, btw, cause the former packs around 30 billion USD more. On top of that, if we’re to follow your logic, countries with lower budgets should not be capable of producing the armour of the same/better quality than those designed by nations with larger budgets… oh well I guess Japan, Russia, Germany & France hasn’t got the notion considering all have been producing armours comparetively better than US armours both recently and in the past.
Research and Development is also very important.
Take a look at what you’re writing because you’re contradicting yourself.
In terms of Development, they’re still lacking in many ways.
Enlighten me.
I’m not really sure where you’ve got your data, but it doesn’t seem correct.
Bundeswehr’s own data from years 2021 & 2022, what are you using, then? Because to say that most of their tanks aren’t even combat ready would require us to go back to the period between 2013 and 2015, which checks calender was a decade ago.
You’ve made so many lapses in logic that at this point, I am not even sure if you’re just lost or actually trolling me.
u forgot the 292
695 mm KE
As I said, nothing above 700+ KE penetration is in the game yet. The object 292 does not exceed that threshold.
Navel players:
Well tbf naval doesn’t face tanks sooo
fair lol
Thank you for holding Baron accountable…he is well intended I am sure, but he makes many leaps and states them as facts. This gets tiresome.
As far as knowing someone in the German Army…who (what position/job) and what rank Baron? I served a full career in the US military and I am now retired. There is a significant difference from talking to a low ranking enlisted member or low ranking officer versus more senior and experienced personnel. Also, most members are not versed in procurement and some of the other issues you are discussing. An intel analyst, combat arms member, procurement officer, and technical lab nerd doing R&D would all have very different insights on the topics you discussed above with Furina, so who you are talking to matters greatly.
The soldier’s view, no matter the country in my first hand experience, is one of pessimism and griping about many things (some valid and some not). I highly doubt that the German soldier you talked to shared in-depth details of armor composites, let alone knew anything about German vs Israeli armor compositions. If he/she did, he/she is in quite a bit of trouble to be honest for discussing these with you.
Again, none of this means the Namer’s armor (and the Merkava armor) is not incorrect. It appears incorrect, but many of your statements above about Leo armor, etc are pure conjecture on your part and not presented as such until Furina called you on it.
You (Baron) are well read and are clearly a tank enthusiast, so you should be proud of that knowledge level, many people do not even have that, but the internet and even some published unclassified, open source documents are incorrect or guessing as well, so be careful.
Constantly insulting me is not “keeping me accountable”. I’m not really sure where you guys get the Super Germany idea from.
Being in the US Military does not translate to knowing the innerworkings of the Bundeswehr. Although I mentioned knowing someone in the German Army, it isn’t relevant to this discussion. The only thing relevant is Germany’s readiness rates, which are poor and have officially been acknowledged as poor by their own Government.
Even if we assume D tech is equal in terms of tech to Israeli SLERA, it doesn’t change the fact that SLERA is 600-800mm thick compared to D-Tech. The size is vastly different and so the protection should mirror that.
Once again, Irrelevant. It isn’t the Soldier who stated they weren’t ready, it was their government. Almost every single Eurocopter is grounded. Their budget and supply lines are poor. Most of the EU has this issue.
This has nothing to do with that. It’s whether or not the Bundeswehr is as “Super” as you people seem to believe, which isn’t the case. They have many issues that make their military only capable of small Peace Keeping Operations. However, on the topic of which armor is better, I will once again rephrase, SLERA is much larger and more aggressive. It’s a mix of ERA and NERA, which is inherently going to be better than just NERA.
Tell me with a straight face that the Namer, which weighs 60 tons, cannot stop a WW2 Bazooka on the side.
You’ve done nothing to add to this conversation other than stroking the Ego of someone who has no intention to construct a positive Dialogue. I very clearly stated I was open to learning and being proven wrong, but instead of showing me how I’m wrong, I got told I’m pulling shit out of the Void.