pretty sure thats why it wasnt added to air rb, since AIM-54’s are way more effective in sim because of their long range catching offguard anyone
OP must be mistaken, Multipath is still in SIM
You can still guess the phoenix position by RWR and see when it starts lagging behind then you are safe
Thankfully so, but only for some RWR’s. The lucky ones :>
Just logged on today and checked, also to check out sensor view in replays. Unfortunately multipathing is still there. Got real hopeful there for a second :(
I recently got into air sim because I thought it would be a refreshing, more realistic change. Nope, same old meta gameplay where the planes with better flight performance have a night and day advantage because avoiding radar missiles is just a case of flying in a straight line against the ground.
Its still call of duty with planes but in first person.
If you manually loft the missile, you can hit the missile toward a target that is hugging on the deck, but it is still RNG and mostly doesn’t work.
I’ll just stick to lower tiers, people actually climb and I no longer have to bother buying premium or gold for modules for new top tier planes.
Multipathing is IMO pretty good where it’s at right now with 60 meters. Notching is a much more powerful technique avoiding ARH missiles in comparison. There’s people in top-tier right now that can consistently evade swarms of almost point-blank launches of ARH missiles just by doing notching techniques
You can avoid multipath abusing by choosing the right maps. On Denmark for example multipathing is extremely easy, on Sinai, Afghan or Vietnam it is very hard.
I would love to see multipath completely gone from the game as well, but as of now the only real way to not really have to deal with it is by choosing a map with irregular terrain.
3 Likes
Nah, arcade features dont belong in SIM at all.
Notching should be the standard, multipathing should be gone entirely. I get why they want to make air rb like call of duty, because its the popular mode and they want to cater to casuals, but sim should be as its described, a “simulation”
1 Like
Well if you care about realism, multipath exists IRL, to varying extents depending on how modern the missile is. I think if Gaijin wants to continue having one set value for every missile in-game, like they do currently (and not adjust it on a per-missile basis), 60m is pretty okay, however they did create code specifically so they can tune it per-missile basis - and if they decide to do this I’m open to the more modern missiles going down in height a bit more. But I don’t consider this this topic to be especially important anymore with how notching works currently for ARH missiles simply because:
Notching already is the standard. It’s incredibly easy and forgiving, a bit too easy in my opinion (edit just to clarify, whilst in the 90° notch, I think the ease of doing it is fine as it is. Problem I have is that it seems at some lower speeds, when not even near a notch-angle it still seems to work pretty consistently) - however unlike multipathing, it does keep your opponent on the defensive, chaff is being used and it provides you with some stand-off capabilities. Also enforcing some stricter G-limits could help the balance here too since you wouldn’t be able to just slam 12-16G’s and be in a notch in mere moments with some planes. But this is an entirely different can of worms.
Overall I’m pretty happy with missile balance atm. I obviously can’t expect it to be perfectly to my wishes
1 Like
I do agree in general, but notching is not that easy, it depends on how much time you have to enter the notch, notching missiles launched from a few km away is VERY hard at least for me.
Stricter G limits and longer-term stamina drain (maybe only reset properly by RTBing) would honestly be a massive buff across the board to energy fighters and heavier fighters even at lower BRs. I’d super love if it’d happen.
Problem - doing so would cut off the abusive monetization scheme that are crew skills (time it takes to get a crew slot to be viable and function is absurdly high at 1 xp/100 RP, even with premium vehicles, if played fully in sim and pre-expert, planes are awfully handicapped against peers even at prop tiers). Thus, gaijin encourages most people in line-up game modes to pay GE.
Realistic G resistance would remove this avenue of monetization for them.
Yeah that’s fair. Unlike multipathing in the past, I guess the masses haven’t figured out how to notch super effectively yet. There are currently techniques people use, where I’ve seen them pretty consistently survive volleys of near point-blank ARH missiles, even when starting off in head-on very close range. The time it takes to enter a notch is very, very fast in some jets. ARH often take much longer than that just to get up to speed and reach the target.
Also you do change direction when notching right? There was a change a while ago where ARH missiles no longer lock onto chaff, but instead stay in IOG when you decoy them. So similarly to the 27ER, or AIM9M you need to both flare/chafff and change direction to make sure it doesn’t hit you. It doesn’t need much though. I like to go into a slight climb, depending on the situation. Some people do medium-speed loops whilst chaffing to stay in a perpetual changing-direction notch.
Again, I’m pretty happy with the missile balance.
Yeah. I don’t particularly need “realism” here. However I think as we’re reaching 15-17G territories now, it’s just getting pretty ridiculous… I’d be happy with something like 9G’s heavy, up to 12G’s as you get lighter. Which is the case with some jets.
If notching is the standard and this is a realistic feature, then why does every single player fly on the deck and why are the engagements usually close range dogfights where in reality its the direct opposite?
I’m not saying the way it’s implemented is completely realistic, I’m just saying it’s real. You suggested completely removing multipath.
I pretty much only play maps with terrain, Spain, Vietnam, Afghanistan. Engagements here sometimes end up close, but not because people multipath, but rather because ARH’s effective range is basically nothing against experienced players. It takes about 4 seconds to enter a notch in a standard top-tier, 4 seconds from launch a missile like R77 will only have covered like 2 kilometres distance.
In reality extremely sophisticated IR missiles exist, where flares will do you no good, dogfights aren’t really a thing anymore. SAM systems aren’t all radar-based and may not be affected by multipath. I also don’t see why a fighter pilot would risk losing a $50 million dollar jet purposefully letting a missile hit right beneath them, whilst also flying dangerously low straight into enemy territory
Yes, in reality, pilots don’t constantly fly against the ground and air combat is almost purely bvr.
In war thunder sim, BVR duels rarely happen as opposed to dogfights and fox2 kills, and all pilots cut grass while being 100% immune to radar missiles. war thunder “sim” is the direct opposite of reality, there should at least me some effort given to make the combat dynamic more realistic and varied as opposed to the same arcadey bs that we see in air AB and RB. Its just air rb in first person, lol. Although I guess its still an improvement over the joke that is 16v16 air rb.
“letting a missile hit right beneath them,”
As far as im aware, in war thunder, planes don’t take damage when a missile explodes under them. I don’t think I’ve ever had that happen. If it does, it doesn’t happen anywhere near enough.
I can recommend you join some Afghanistan, Rocky Canyon or Spain missions. You get plenty of ARH action there. I personally always find at least some of those maps available, but I’ve heard others don’t have the same luck.
I agree. Although I don’t necessarily ‘need’ everything to be realistic just for the sake of realism. I do think most of the community appreciate realism though, we want it to feel like we’re flying the actual fighter-jets we know and love IRL. Otherwise what’s the point? We’d essentially just be flying made up planes with “skins” of their realistic counterparts.
When I made the thread asking for multipath to be reduced it was mainly coming from a balance stand-point, not realism. IMO multipath was way too excessive and led to bad, ridiculous and unbalanced gameplay. The goal was for it to be reduced so that it would become less consistent over uneven/unpredictable terrain, and promote other tactics, not for it to be removed completely. I think the reduction to 60m more or less achieved this goal. It’s not perfect but can’t really expect them to completely nail it.
It happens in certain circumstances, like if the missile has a lot of explosives like the Phoenix
Yeah maps are very important if you want to actually do bvr. Avoid Denmark at all cost, best options are spain, afghan, vietnam and canyon. If only gaijin added some more…Another map that got better now is Sinai, adding rocks makes it harder to multipath. However, I also would like to see multipath sensibly reduced, sometimes it sill feels “too much”.
3 Likes