Did I say “nerf the F-2’s radar”?
A sparrow being guided in via AESA is significantly stronger & lethal than one being guided in via standard PD.
On top of all that, F-2 is a missile bus.
So a radar vastly superior than F-15C with even equivalent loadout, and F-15C is looking to be 12.3.
Scroll up to re-read examples related to ammunition.
You’d seriously fly a Mitsubishi F-2 with only 4x or 6x Aim-9Ls? Never to be upgraded since there’s no 12.0 to replace it…
There are already F-16A, J-8F, and Netz. In my view, this is an option worth considering current meta that the AIM-7 has gone dumb.
To reiterate, “as I explained earlier, if it turns out to be weaker than expected, it can be buffed simply by uncapping the loadout.” In this case, Gaijin can try changing the IR missile to AAM-3 or give AIM-7M. (or both)
There is also an option to nerf the radar, although I don’t like it very much. The radar is of course a ‘hard factor’, but if it was changed conditionally ‘until there is a proper BR expansion’ it would have been much more gently accepted by people than the F-16AJ. Also it is better than the F-16AJ even for the purpose of giving Japan a CAS option.
Anyway, this is good enough. Right? We’ve been off topic too long. If your goal isn’t to spark another flame war, why not make a discussion on the subject of this thread instead of bite my words?
Every post I made addresses the F-2.
Since I’ve never 'started a flame war" in my life, I cannot start “another”. BTW no idea what “biting words” is.
How about just avoid insults? And no, AJ is superior than a permanently less-armed F-2.
Especially since we’re getting F-15J before the F-2 regardless.
Many of us already claimed to prefer a gimped F-2A over a completely made up F-16AJ Gaijin gave us incl. myself. Besides its superior flight performence to most current jets in-game, there is no real reason to hold it back.
AESA Radar is meaningless when limiting it to AIM-7Ms or nerfing it; yes AESA is an advantage, but same as other Radars before it can be temporarely nerfed and function like a mechnical PD Radar, also the missiles still use CW, AESA can still be notched (its harder though) and its not like we have missiles in-game which are already superior to AIM-7Ms and early AIM-120s ‘cough R-27ER cough’, which technically even outperforms the AAM-4 (not the B) in most situations and range. The real advantage of having AESA combined with AIM-7M would be to mentain a lock better than with normal PD Radars and seeing how bad AIM-7s perform generally in top tier, I don´t see the elephant in the room.
The F-2A in its ‘Early Service’ form is a legitimate and much appreciated addition; unique unlike a C&P F-15C equivalent and not dead-on-arrival as the F-16AJ was as CAS fighter as thought / intended by Gaijin.
I could now also go into Pantsir and Yak-141, as well as the heaps of errors and missing armament of the F-16AJ, but I have better things to do than messing around.
Even with Aim-7Ms, that’s 12.7 minimum, 13.0 likely. Still wouldn’t be 12.0 unless you remove all radar missiles permanently until the closure of the game, or until a sub-tree replaces it, and Gaijin is still looking at subtree options for Japan.
F-15 will be 12.3 without an AESA radar with the same amount of missiles.
Aim-7F/Ms perform just fine currently.
F-16AJ is also one of the best 12.0s in the game, not DOA.
DOA is in a CAS role, which was Gaijins reasoning for adding it over the XF-2A. They basically said something along the lines of “XF-2A has no guided air to ground weapons, so it can’t fill that gap”, completely ignoring that the Pantsir made the CAS role of the F-16AJ irrelevant.
Combined with the fact that the plane we have in game isn’t even an F-16AJ, but a completely fictional F-16A"J" OCU/ADF mix up for Japan makes it quite understandable that another approach would have been preferred.
I personally think that the XF-2A (with radar temporarily functioning like PD, just as it was done when PD wasn’t in game yet), could’ve been a much better choice. That, or at least the actual AJ, not a downgraded version of a plane that was denied twice for not being good enough.
Pantsir’s missiles can’t hit an active F-16.
I have yet to be killed by a Pantsir in a ground match, and I’ve killed over 10 of them with Tornado & an F-16.
An XF-2A with only Aim-9Ls for the rest of WT’s life doesn’t sound good to me.
And we got the actual AJ.
All of the F-2s are far more powerful machines than you give them credit for.
To think they are as “bad” as 12.0 is rather insulting to the amazing airframe.
What we got was a fictional “what-if” variant of the F-16 Block 10 in Japanese service, likely based on a scenario in which neither the F-15J nor the F-14J proposal were there to compete with it. This then it received Sparrows and and the AJ name from the later proposal. A more accurate version of this would be a standard F-16 Block 10 called F-16J.
The Actual AJ proposal resembled the shape of a YF-16A prototype that had previously been tested with some of the technologies this plane far proposed with. Essentially this was done to give the F-16 all weather capabilities as the ADF wasn’t a thing yet, so production F-16s were limited to IR missiles. This one would also be advertised with TV bombs and rockets in the brochure, in game it lacks the bombs. A more accurate AJ in game would have a revised 3D model and would carry sparrows on the gear doors instead of the wings (maybe both, as wing mounted sparrows were also shown in the brochure on photos of the prototype).
As it stands it’s a “what-if” based on the proposal made to catch up to F-14/15, that was then downgraded as if a downgraded version of a plane that lost a competition could’ve won it.
I’d personally prefer throwing this “what-if” scenario out the window and just picking one of the proposals and following it 1:1. (Even if a proposal in itself is “what-if” but that’s besides the point)
Edit: Forgot the F-2 part…
XF-2A would also receive more advanced missiles and full radar capability as time goes on, there’s no way a fully equipped F-2 could be 12.0 but with limited armament and temporary PD mechanics I could see that working for now. And in the future it won’t need to stay there as the EJ Kai with AAM-3 could take up that BR someday.
What do you add for 12.0 tho?
EJ Kai with AAM-3 would likely be 12.3 rather than 12.0, which then begs the question: What to add for 11.7?
I love the F-2 more than anyone.
Yet I’m being antagonized by people who claim to agree with me…
Which causes doubt in my mind, and makes me think I’m the only one that sincerely wants F-2 in the game.
There is plenty of BRs without anything, so in the long term 12.0 might just be empty. The only reason it matters now is because it’s current top tier.
But I don’t really mind the F-16AJ as a concept and get the addition. I would only prefer the F-2 because I quite like it, or a more accurate representation of an existing proposal. I feel like the current AJ represents neither the F-16J proposal nor the F-16AJ proposal, so it fails at representing history and feels a bit improvised (not really the right word, I just don’t know what would be…).
If we had one of those, both an F-16J (Standard Block 10) and actual AJ (derivative of YF-16A) would still have around the same capabilities and could stay at 12.0
I am upset that there is an attempt at arguing over no real disagreements.
If you want F-2, we agree. That’s what we should focus on, right?
I want it in WT with all 8 AAM pylons able to be filled, that’s my desire.
I also want it in WT when Gaijin is ready for AESA simulation, even if its simplified, since F-2 will likely be the first AESA aircraft for WT.
It’s a cool aircraft. It can have 120 countermeasures, dogfight better than F-16, carry two more AAMs.
I just don’t think it’s equivalent to F-16A, even if had all but 9Ls removed [partially cause it’d maybe only have 4 of them and probably be 11.7], which I guess is precedence now that Su-25T lacks its R-73s on pylons 2 & 10, until it doesn’t.
I think it’s equivalent to F-16 Block 60.
In that case I do actually agree, the only real disagreement then was about the F-16AJ, which I still think isn’t implemented correctly, but rather as a weird mix of two different proposals in an urealistic “what-if” scenario. Then again, you didn’t really say anything against that either…
So on that note I am sorry for misunderstanding your point and I wish you a good day.
It’s really weird that all of you are aruging around the radar when this suggestion is clearly made for the late variant of it.
And worse, let me tell you, F-2A (Early) is a WORSE CAS platform than you’d expect. It can only carry GPS guided bomb and other dumb bombs. LJDAM was never planned until much later. And even worse - Even if you had considered all the Japanese aircrafts, you will find none of them (except maybe the P-1) ever carried AGM-65 mavericks.
F-16AJ is needed simply because Japanese need CAS lobbing some AGM-65s from above.
I was more arguing about the in game F-16AJ resembling neither of the actual F-16 proposals for Japan, but rather a fictional mix of both based on a “what-if” approach that is less realistic than either of those.
Edit: But you’re right, that doesn’t really belong here.