I should have said thrust to weight, thats my bad. Keep in mind though the F-16A gains 1000kgf thrust just by reaching takeoff speeds. Unfortunately I cant test the F-16C thrust curve but the youtuber jaek did some testing, granted this is dev server but I dont think anything really changed. https://youtu.be/lYfKfZC-N-k?si=dvQZ3rESL9B6Znx4&t=210
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Hi Spy, welcome to the new forum.
Yes I did some testing. I got numbers for days.
So why mention it?
Relatively small increase in thrust? Have you compared a spaded block 10 and spaded C???
Why do people swear they know everything about the F16 of WT and never played it? Because they are getting smoked by them? Maybe if they knew about their flight characteristics, they may be able to exploit weaknesses? Instead of looking on the internet for any open-source excuse to nerf it that GJ already knows about?
You want some numbers? Here,
The C can go Mach at a 88 ° climb with 20 min fuel straight from take-off no zoom climb.
The C has 11,480 Kgf of AB thrust while the A has 9,000.
The C can float for days. Stay vertical, rate and go vertical again. I have yet to stall out in a rate fight. Though I am not trying to ever. I have 1v1 block 10s and vice versa. If the Block 10 fails to kill you in the first pass after a merge. It’s usually over. Provided you know what you are doing (I know you do personally) and climb instead of spiral down to the deck like most and allow the block 10 to keep up.
The weight? Completely offset by the new engine. It was only a pig on the Dev server. Even with the G limit on. However, I was undefeatable against any mig29 variant even when the opponent was in full real. They have toned down the thrust since and in place removed the limit. I do not know which version I like better. 1st Dev C or this C.
With said, I would like to talk about the Mig29 in the Mig29 forum. How are you liking the SMT?
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Yeah this discussion is better held in the F-16 topic. Just wanted to end it off with this graph: https://youtu.be/UoqDB52iadY?si=2cjJXsRo7uYsDAxI&t=42. Basically at sea level after 400 kph the A has essentially the same TWR as the C.
Regarding the SMT, I have no interest in playing it since it is a fat version of a plane I already have. Plane performance is what makes playing a certain plane fun for me and the SMT just doesn’t have that. I’m sticking with the Yak-141 and the Netz this patch.
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Yes, let’s roll to the F16 thread. As for the video. I personally require non video game sources translated by non-video game personnel. Definitely not from CCs.
I can make a graph right now too and talk about how I have no clue why the Israelis got the D instead of the Barak 1 (I know why.) The dude has no idea what has talking about. He does not even know if it’s better than the MLU or ADF and states that.
As for the SMT It’s fat, I personally think we are feeling the weight more than it should. But regardless it is a fun jet to fly. I think you would love it. I also think it’s still not finished.
The DCS FM verification document is quoting performance charts of Mig-29 (and also F-16C Block50):
How FM starts in DCS (digitalcombatsimulator.com)
One thing that is worth mentioning is the RD-33 engine has one training mode (Low Power Mode) and two combat modes – Normal Power Mode (NPM) and Increased Temperature Mode (ITM). The last one gives the highest performance at high Mach numbers but the lowest engine lifetime. And the charts are usually drawn with only NPM.
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First of all, the 10 km figure on the IRST screen is not applicable to IRST. IRST does not have a max range the same way a radar does, it locks onto a heat signature. If there was an SR-71 flying away from you in full afterburner you would be able to lock it at 100 km in clear weather with no issues.
Second, you can’t switch to PD after IRST HMS lock (it will break the lock after 3 seconds), because, in the game, radar in ACM and in HMS has a 10 km limit, which, by the way, is not accurate. According to the SUV-29 (FCS of the MiG-29) manual, the 10 km figure is a range limit for radar ACM acquisition only, there is nothing stating that the radar can not maintain a lock if a target flies past the 10 km limit. Moreover, there is no actual 10 km limit when using radar HMS. I am yet to see a manual that says that both ACM and HMS have a 10 km limit, all of them only say that about ACM.
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Wrong… omg.
IRST and IR missile do not track heat. They track light. IRST does not feel for heat, they see. only reason people say “heat” is because of their lack of knowledge on the technology.
Light is obscured by many atmospheric conditions such as clouds, oxygen and water vapor. Also other IR signatures such as… oh you know this big ball of plasma called a star which is our sun tends to be a big obstacle my guy.
If IRST was so amazing they would use it over radar my guy. They have very poor ranges due to elements above. You do not need a manual you just need to study.
Stop typing, just pick up a book. I gtg brb.
Heat and light are both forms of electromagnetic radiation and you’re very aware of this. Let’s not continue this line of dishonest discussion focusing solely on the overly simplified explanation of his argument. He’s entirely correct for all intents and purposes and conveyed the information necessary to point out that the IRST is not as limited as the ACM radar mode.
There is no need to explain further what has already been obviously well understood by all parties. The SR-71’s heat signature is much greater, the IR emissions are sufficient to be detectable in clear conditions beyond that of which any IRST in-game can currently lock. I actually think they’re underperforming in lock-on range rather than overperforming.
The ACM range limit is just a remainder left over from when they modeled the IRST ACM mode along with the radar one. As stated, it is not limited like the radar in this way.
That’s… not the case. The radar is needed to guide radar missiles. The use of the IRST is outlined quite well in the combat manual, if you’d like I can forward that to you.
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Literally just stop, you have no idea what you are talking about. It does not matter where the sun is positioned. The intense visible light, infrared & X rays that the sun emits reflects off the surface of the earth and the oxygen and other particles in the air the atmosphere causes great disruption at long ranges for IRST my guy.
Enough. I cannot no longer converse with these people lol.
“Dude someone spotted an SR-71” lol. So?
I would like to see your source for the range limitations of the IRST? It seems as I stated, to be underperforming in-game.
Well, obviously, mate. Of course, they track the infrared emissions. And no, this is not the only reason people say “heat” in this scenario, but because the temperature of the object directly correlates to how much infrared radiation it emits. It is a shorthand.
The point I am making is that there is no hard 10 km limit for the IRST. The manuals state that a MiG-21 at max dry thrust can be detected from 15 km and locked from 8 - 10 km (War Thunder does not distinguish between those numbers and always takes the detection range as the tracking range for all systems, as far as I am aware). Now, turn that MiG-21 to face its hot ass at you, you can safely double/triple the detection range. Have it go in full afterburner and you can double/triple the previous figure again.
The vertical ACM of the Radar has a 10 km max due to radar emission timings and some processing stuff. The Radar in HPRF is blind for the first 9 km also due to how information is processed. You could put a giant reflector in orbit hundreds of kilometers away, but your radar will not see it (or at least will not tell you the true range). All of this is because the speed of light is not infinite and the radar cannot emit and receive the reflections at the same time. IRST does not have that issue as it is a passive sensor. Sure, if the target is flying head-on, at a low speed (low skin temps), and at low power, you are not going to see it at 10-15 km, but let it fly fast and burning, you will see it from dozens of kilometers away.
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I have to leave brb. I am still not going to sit here and teach you boys how the sun works and what light is, the effects it has on infrared sensor range and even your eyes lol.
IRST cannot be too sensitive because it will pick up unwanted radiation that is literally all around us at all times.
It seems he thinks anything that reflects or gives off heat in the form of infrared emissions is going to create noise like radar returns and blind the IRST or something. I think we can safely ignore any further derailment and discourse from him. The manual is pretty explicit in the lock ranges. Shall we DM and test the ranges? Perhaps it’s under/overperforming and we can verify since he’s so worried.
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it does not create noise. it is literally still electromagnetic radiation. The same radiation that IRST is literally looking for. LMFAO.
Not many things emit radio waves/microwaves. That is why its easier to sift through the “noise” and why there was a brilliant invention called RADAR.
Well, that is technically true, just not to the extent that would not allow an IRST to see an afterburning target at like 30 km away. The manual does say that those ranges are for a target with a clear sky in the background. If there is ground behind it, the detection/tracking range drops a bit, and it drops further if there are clouds behind it. However, all the IRST needs is a contrast point to track and a jet, especially facing its engine at you (even more so in AF) provides more than enough for that.
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The IR spectrum allows them to focus on certain wavelengths and differentiate those emissions. This is pretty simple stuff, is there some reason it can’t “sift through the noise”?
Remind me which technology began to mature first?
The sun emits every wavelength on the spectrum.
Remind me which is superior? The only reason the Soviets invested in it because they know they have garbage radar development. Though IRST is very useful. At shorter ranges.
Even missiles by the early 80s were made insensitive to solar radiation. Are you saying that the sun being over the horizon makes it impossible for the IRST to function outside of 10km?
That contradicts quite a lot of available information, are you sure? What brought you to that conclusion?
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If you really want to go down this path without thinking on it and looking into it a little go for it.
So I need you to confirm that IRST is superior to radar in terms of target detection.
Yes or no?
I gtg though. Take a moment to think about it. Go over some notes or research. Be back later.
You said the Soviets invested in the infrared technologies because their radars were garbage. That just simply isn’t the case and they have totally separate purposes. Do you need the combat manual that explains the usage and employment of the IRST?
I’d also like to remind you that even tank thermals from the late 70s have the ability to view targets when the sun is coming over the horizon in the background. It’s hardly blinding by any means. Why would the suns’ presence be an issue for tracking targets with a thermal imaging device? You haven’t explained how that’s going to limit the range. In fact, in-game I think clouds and other materials hamper tracking far more than they should.
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