the MiG-23’s is not a fully coherent pulse doppler
brb lemme see if I can bring the Razbam MiG-23 discord channel into this I think this thread hasn’t been derailed enough and
Not sure how explaining the Sapfir and Rubin being different radars, and how is derailing but if you have information that suggests otherwise feel free to post it… in regards to Rubin, they made some serious changes that prevented total loss of usefulness to the radar when they modified it into “Topaz”.
Not gonna lie , I don’t like the current F-16 , I liked the older one more , older one was about tactics , when to enter dogfight , how to energy trap and …
this on is just zero but Jet powered , I don’t like Turn fighters , I like balanced fighters
5 Likes
coherency debate has been over, essentially its incoherent MTD (MTI but the filter is adjusts based off circumstance rather than fixed no matter what with MTI) with like 49 velocity band filters and the computer switches between them whenever to whichever one is deemed fit tho MTD filtering is only in MV mode but the velocity filters are used at all altitudes
It filled out the soviet definition of coherency though because big surprise the definition of coherency can change between countries, the Sapfir-23 radars dont really fit the western definition of coherency but at the end of the day its all semantics because the RP-23 is fully LDSD capable and is pretty damn good at it (unlike the Cyrano IV IRL)
2 Likes
BVVD on dev stream. :
( Timecode 29:59 ( I can’t make timecode On phone )
https://www.youtube.com/live/nzzl6SY-tLU?si=1NJHaraU5DFoS5Mq
MiG-29 flight model changes. Spin dynamics and AoA adjustments. Also, weight change.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1157939628406472806/1158458123984568350/image.png?ex=651c51b3&is=651b0033&hm=3c37b44dd0b25df491db93fc1abbb239944d5836c588a0a61611542d6c9e6dd0&
Rate changes as well
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1157939628406472806/1158458292847259820/image.png?ex=651c51dc&is=651b005c&hm=186f37b9eb47f15ae9fc4a863babf67d0aa481f2d8c7403f4f922073e8309a4b&
Changes appear to be the same for all three.
2 Likes
Thats good… Changes are already live?
I don’t think so, likely with this week’s “It’s fixed”.
what day do they usually publish them?.. anyway that SpinCdLoss value is close to what it was pre nerf
Also anyone knows what the rate coefficients mean?
The increased the base weight of the aircraft, as such the turn performance was adjusted. Might need to do significant sustained turn performance tests after update goes live Tuesday / Wednesday. If you don’t mind handling that again while I focus on the AoA / spin recovery issues?
2 Likes
I would also like to know how much the weight change in the 9.12 and 9.13 will affect the performance, if the mig29 will be the same as it was before the patch or better/worse
and I appreciate your and @MiG_23M efforts in trying to fix the mig29
3 Likes
Sure, I am happy to do them!.. was about to send in another bug report since low speed sustained turn is underperforming even compared to charts, but I’ll wait until this changes are live
2 Likes
Base weight increased by ~300kg, I hope changes to FM and AoA reflect this… SMT weight did not change.
We will find out during testing this week.
3 Likes
Having now looked a lot of those times at both the German and Russian manual charts, old flight model was (unfortunately) over performing in low speed STR (especially with flaps), so we shouldn’t expect to have that wonderful flight model again.
That said at lower speeds and lower altitudes the MiG29 at low speed right now is a bit underperforming, by about 0.3 G sustained… and while it doesn’t sound (and is not) much it would lead to at least 0.5 deg/sec better performance compared to now at 460kph, which is noticeable.
What really should change is the F-16 STR, and, for Air RB, we should really start pushing to have something to let us choose how much AoA the instructor normally pulls…
As this graphs (and also in game testing) show, if we could let the instructor limit himself to something like 17 degrees AoA instead of 22, we would get 80% of the lift with almost half (55% of total) (!) induced drag, that would prevent the 29 from shitting away all it’s speed to get his nose around a bit faster.
This would also help A LOT other deltas and high AoA speed bleeders like all the Deltas and even (in the future) F-15 and (especially) F-18
2 Likes
Ah, I see… so the next step would be to fix the overperforming f16? if everything goes well with the mig29 changes
I’ve already submitted (another) report.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/OLiLWCU6c4tU
1 Like
Yes… I would need someone to do the rate testing for the F-16 as I still haven’t reached it… but right now the F-16A is definitely an UFO in everything, from rate to pull to high speed energy retention
1 Like
Sustained turn at weight loads shown in charts is correct but it has insane performance at lower fuel loads and I don’t think it’s very realistic… Regardless, fixing the insane stability and nose pointing / recovery ability is priority…
1 Like
I have charts for low fuel F-16C sea level if they can help, but nothing for the F-16A unfortunately… in general F-16s and MiG-29 rate very similarly, difference is never bigger than 1 deg/sec (which is barely noticeable, especially since as soon there’s a even a little vertical “up and downs” the MiG29 should gain an huge advantage on the F-16A)