@BBCRF @MiG_23M sorry for pinging you two, any idea if the MiG-29 has a “war time” engine mode or in general something similar to 102% engine trim for F-15?
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It is missing a bit of thrust because there are errors on the installed thrust charts but besides that, no
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Calculating turn rate with the installed thrust charts and polars gives the turn rate we see on the German and sustained turns charts thought, so if that chart is wrong then the turn rate charts are also wrong… how much thrust is supposedly missing?
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Are the turn rate charts calculated or from flight test? You tell me. The aircraft cannot exercise basic maneuvers like a simple loop per the manual, we have gone over this.
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I don’t know, I can’t translate Russian well and the chart does not say how it was made. They could very well be calculated thought, at least they match with the values from the polars and the thrust curve.
What is the loop that in war thunder it can’t do properly?
Finally found this old post. With 6.4 there was also the issue that according to chart 6.4 the aircraft had more lift with the same AoA compared to 6.14
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Its a tricky thing, cause from my understanding the entire root cause of the 29 FM not performing up to expectations is almost purely due to induced drag being off at this point - which doesnt always translate into strict deviations from sustained rate charts. Cause while SEP=0 at a certain G load might match, the magnitude of SEP generation/loss outside of that point can still not match the respective irl curves. I guess to get to the bottom of it we need to catalog all these other tests such as those you mention, and try out the 6.10 chart gio posted - basically everything which can infer induced drag, & energy generation/loss discrepancies.
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Here we go into the art of convincing the devs that something needs fixing. If we include too much (say, FM not being able to do a certain loop/figure) the devs might just go “we don’t adjust FMs based on this / we can’t fit the FM to fit everything and it is currently within our expectations”.
We gotta somehow show them that the FM deviates too much. Ideally, the SEP chart would be more than enough, but they could always just through their hands in the air.
The more bug reports I file, the more it feels like presentation matters more than the substance.
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ik ik, its a real struggle cause they are just very inclined to toss out stuff without giving it any reasonable consideration so long as it goes against how they want the fm. Seems to me u just need to have ALL your ducks in a row if u want to have the best chance of getting them to change something like this. Which is the exact reason why i havent made a report on SEP curves yet - cause i dont want to have the potential for stuff in the future just tossed out as ‘duplicate report’ if it references the 6.4 chart. So really need to get a solid foundation of evidence thats very well thought out and makes sense before anything gets presented so it has the best chance for change.
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The thing is that devs shouldn’t have to estimate/calculate stuff from tests, because the drag (including induced drag) of the MiG-29 is literally plotted in one of the first charts of the manual.
Yeah you do good at waiting to post, let’s not make a Su-27 2.0 situation happen
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Si from my understanding, even with all the work you all did, it’s possible gaijin messed up with the polar curve in game and the aircraft may be underperforming to some extent ??
Well, what a mess of an aircraft, and as you all mentioned a Bug report would be way worse, as gaijin tends to toss them out for weird reasons…
Hope we can do something for it in the future
Sad 29 days
How do these compare to the turn charts in the aerodynamics manual? These are from the aerobatics manual.
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Speaking of which, how do I even try arguing and which sources do I use to reduce the installed engine thrust on the Su-27 family, instead of the devs just giving the airframe more drag? (I am assuming this is one of the problems with its FM judging by past discourse on the topic here)
I say that because that big birdy can supercruise:
Su-27S at 1210 km/h TAS and Su-27SM at 1215 km/h TAS (M1.04), both at 4 km alt.
Su-27S at 1220 km/h TAS and Su-27SM at 1225 km/h TAS (M1.01), both at 1 km alt.
Su-27S at 1209 km/h TAS (M1.07) at 7 km alt.
Video of it doing so with clean wing and ~min fuel (30% - 13 min)
My only guess would be to use this sustained turn graph for max dry thrust and argue that the graphs go down sharpy on the right and thus they can’t go past 1180 km/h at 1G. Do we have any straight line non-afterburning acceleration graphs for the Wanker?
PS: Is this just above Mach supercruise actually possible on the Wanker or is it just not mentioned because it is for a relatively clean/light loadout? I tried out the MiG-29 9.13 and it seems to stop at M0.99 at 4 km with min fuel and clean wing.
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For what weight are this tables? If they are sustained turns for 13000kg then they are extremely close, slightly higher, your manual has them slightly higher (and the difference grows with speed). I
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The real configuration for 13000 kg & 12800 kg is not clean as we understand it btw, it is disarmed but not clean.
That is how there is +430 kg
I’m tired of the loose terminology regarding supercruise. If the aircraft can’t cruise at around ~1.3+ mach (ideally closer to 1.5), it is not true “supercruise”. The engine is not “cruising”, it is on maximum mil thrust and at the very limits if the maximum supercruise speed is less than 1.5 mach.
The F-22 Raptor for example can max out at around ~1.82 mach in supercruise but cruises at a lower 1.5 mach for fuel efficiency and engine longevity reasons. That is true “supercruise”
Then again, it was only with the implementation of the variable bypass AL-41 models that the Su-35 was able to “supercruise” up to ~1.1 mach.
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Give me a minute to look at the manual in more detail, I need to translate everything.
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Yes, it is called RPT "РПТ-режим повышенных температур
Schedule 6.4 is correct. At AOA 24, it loses speed at 450 km/h. Whereas at 1000m, it can hold 5G
If we take Nx=0.5 at 5G for Vias=700km/h
0,5=(Thrust-Drag)/mg
0.5x127530=(Thrust-Drag)
63765Н=(Thrust-Drag)
thrust=7200x2x9.81=141264
Drag=141264-63675=77499
Cd=77499/869148,43=0,089
