They don’t. As I said just like belly mounted Sparrow missiles the missile seeker (or receiver if you want to call it that) is told the direction of the target before launch. Once the missile is launched and is clear of the aircraft it then looks for and locks onto the target.
No they are lol
IR missiles are not able to be mounted on the fuselage of the Su-27 there is not line of sight for the seeker. The R-27R must establish a signal with the target to launch.
That is why 3km is the minimum launch range.
Multiple threads are filled with this guy arguing with other people
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I suspect that’s because the IR missiles lack English Bias commands so require LOS to the target. Atleast with Sparrow/Skyflash, the missile receives EB commands to orient the missile to the target vector so the seeker can pick up the CW emissions. I suspect R-27 works in a similar fashion but I’m by no means an expert in any system let alone Russian ones.
missile sets the speed gates before launch , so when launched it can pick up the emission and starts updating.
sparrows on phantoms and F-14 are embedded in the fuselage. seeker half way obstructed.
at the same time sparrows should be able to be turned on without lock so it can be setup immediately after radar lock is achieved
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I will keep looking into it, But the ER must establish connection & why is has a 3km minimum launch range. They never had PD HMD support. If they did, The R-27R & ER would be wing mounted only as well.
The R-27ER in aft position cannot even see to its right or left. This all comes down to the fictional HMS capability for radar missiles.
The radar had very limited ability to direct its beam already, let alone shoot high off boresight R-27ERs that are tucked away from receiving a signal.
We are left bending over backwards, splitting straws in attempt to justify bad modelling. There is no such thing a “PD HMD” mode for a radar that uses a modified Mig-23 Radar of 1960s design.
Thanks, but no thanks to straight-up propaganda.
Bruh we are left at this point of the conversation still believing that the R-27ER not only had high off boresight capability beyond the limits of what both the radar & IRST can see (even in game), but now they also lock on after launch for that extra spicy high off-bore sight capability???
High off boresight 350kg (771lb) SARHs that lock on after launch? That also go Hypersonic?
Hypersonic medium ranged SARHs with high off boresight capability? That lock on after launch?
@Flame2512 @Gunjob is this the level of realism in the game we are at? This is not realism, this is delusion.
Catapult launchers are used under fuselage, rail launchers with coolant are used under wings only. R-27T/ET can be used only on rail launchers.
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So lads.
We came from Mig-29 flight model suck to Mig-29 can’t use R-27ER to Mig-29’s radar can’t use HMD and now we slowly approaching Mig-29’s can’t use any radar’s slaving weapons ?.
mig29 didn’t had wings
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The Mig-29 FM does not suck per se. But is definitely lacking. Have you noticed the roll rate of the Mig29 SMT? What about its poor angle of attack? The IRCCM of all IR missiles is lacking, the IRST detection & tracking & search of the OEPS-29/27. IRST search mode is completely useless. No one uses it in-game only HMC.
There was no such thing as “PD HMD” mode. The OEPS-29 works exclusively with IR missiles.
Just like the Soviet Union did not chose to mount rails on the exhaust intakes simply because of catapult launchers. They are less than optimal place to work efficiently with the HMS.
There is not ability for the Seeker to see in close quarters with targets at your 12 o’clock high. Ideally, this is the position you want the enemy to be in a dogfight.
It makes zero sense that IR missiles would be placed on the fuselage because of an inability for the seekers to see when they are most needed. In close quarters.
That is why no rail was placed on the exhaust for IR missiles. Not because Sukhoi could not somehow figure out how to launch IR missiles from the fuselage that day.
That is why All IR missiles are exposed & protrude from the wings.
This is common sense to those who understand the technology. Jesus Christ you people know nothing about Soviet design.
The HMS is useless if the seeker cannot see the target & what your HMS is pointing at. It makes placing any IR missiles on the fuselage pointless.
Not because they woke up one day & could not figure out how to switch the rails on the fuselage.
“IR missiles need rail coolant”. That is OBVIOUS. Is the fuselage a magical place that rails if placed would not receive their coolant?
Rails were not placed there, even on the exhaust because the seekers cannot see above the nose. Defeating the entire purpose of the HMS.
Well it would be no different then other fox1 missiles that are mounted on the rearward section of the fuselage in other aircraft such as phantoms and tornado’s. If the sparrows and skyflashes are perfectly capable of engaging targets above the nose where they lack direct los on launch, then there is absolutely no reason why a missile with a datalink system such as on r27’s cannot also. As not only will it be able to home in on the radar beam emitted once it is ejected from the rear station, same as the aforementioned missiles, but also will be receiving active telemetry on where it needs to fly towards even when the missile seeker cannot see the target;
(4+ Mig29 all variants)
Though naturally, the IR missiles do need to be mounted in an area where they have a good forward field of view, as they do not have the capability to ‘loal’ and need to first acquire a direct lock before launch. However, if they also were to receive sufficient upgrades with intergrated datalink systems along with more accurate INS, then i would imagine they too would also be capable of being mounted in the rearward stations. No different then how some modern aircraft are capable of firing IR missiles from their internal weapons bay, or indeed how the modern variants of archers are claimed to be capable of firing at targets behind the aircraft if designated by the rear facing radar.
In terms of the question of older radars being able to see & lock targets above it or as designated by HMS there are a few things which make me think that it should be perfectly doable. Firstly, if it could not slew upwards to follow a hms, how then does it achieve accurate tracking on targets within the angles above the horizon in normal operation? Or especially while already tracking a closing target which would present fast aspect changes relative to the radar. It seems they had some method for achieving this even with such an old radar design. And I haven’t read or heard of any pilots or authors noting any particular inability of the radar to maintain a lock in such situations. Additionally, the mig29G manual itself outright states the HMS can be used to designate targets directly to OESP, Radar and IR seekers of missiles;
Furthermore, the radar is designed to work directly in tandem with the Electro-optical system - with the radar constantly staying aligned to where the OEPS is locking something, so that an instant switch from OESP to radar lock is possible whenever needed - either for weapons delivery or for the proper maintenance of target tracking. If indeed there was no way for the radar to achieve sufficient lock and tracking of targets above the nose - which is the primary area serviced by the electro-optical system - then such a capability would not be possible;
(Fulcrum in action by Hans-Heiri Stapler)
You are correct, that’s why the PD HMD Mode is made up.
Are they? Can you source this?
This is not how the Data Link in the R-27 works.
The RF receiver is not sensitive enough to pick up illumination at longer ranges that the R/ER can kinematically engage at (another limitation in Soviet production of digital electronics 1980s).
The Soviets bypassed this limitation by equipping the R-27 with data link antenna for command guidance to cover the trip until the missiles gets into range where it can pick up illumination with its own receiver in the nose.
This ability, what people think is “lock on after launch” happens for targets the radar determines are at too far a range for the receiver of the missile to pick up.
It is incapable of launching at targets at close range with the missile’s receiver “turned off”.
Designate visually identified targets. It is an optical pointing station.
They must enter the Radar’s FOV before they are locked.
There is no HUD display in sight rings & there is no frequency tone for radar missiles.
All your data shows up in the HUD. The only way you can tell if you have locked a target with the radar is to point your nose at it first.
You cannot lock them with the HMS & fire off a missile like IR missiles.
lol
I got curious.
Do you have a source that supports your theory? Because this is definitely interesting.
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This is not a theory lol. The games mechanic is theory.
Even OEPS-29 user manuals that others have shared states the exact same thing. They are used for R60M, R-73, R-27T & R-27ET.
The Su-27SK flight manual both Russian & English versions state that the sight rings are for IR missiles. A flashing light & audible tone will tell you have lock.
If radar weapons are selected, the radar is turned on and is in stand-by updated with the targets angular position so when it does cross its FoV it is captured immediately and locked.
You must point the nose at the target. There is no such thing as PD HMD mode & high-off bore sight R-27ERs. That is not what they were even designed for.
Additionally, you cannot fire the R-27R or ER in a dogfight pulling 5gs anyway. Here is documentation for you profession English translation Su-27SK manual.
I said theory cause i didnt saw concrete evidence that supports your claim when i was quoting you.
So do you have any plans to report this? Would like to hear what Gaijin is gonna say tbh.