Maybe if they remove the ERs they’ll add the r73s to compensate, that missile shouldn’t ever have been added to the regular mig29s anyway and it’s probably one of the reasons of the plane sucking performance-wise as they probably don’t want to give the best bvr and wvr to the russians.
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I heard ppl saying that fox3s will be more effective against ppl that stick to the ground, idk if that’s true but if it is then it’ll be a great advantage over the ER, although if ur flying high then yeah ur kinda screwed
Thats what I have been trying to say! I want the true early 9-12 & 9-13. That was GJs plan from the get-go!
They intended to give the R73 to the 9-13, but it proved to be way powerful on the dev server at the time & it was then released with just R27Rs & R60s. Its FM was modelled like crap and game efficiency was too low, so they decided to pull out the R-27RE from the workshop and slap it on.
They know just as much as I do that the ER does not belong on any Mig-29 in game other than the SMT.
GJ does their homework & knows their Soviet weapon system history very well. I have noticed things modelled in game that no average player or developer could have known unless having had a deep appreciation in the history.
That’s why I do not think a bug report will matter… They will change it back if they see fit.
It is overperforming though the ER completely out accelerates & ranges the ET & has much more speed retention when its motor is out.
Look I am a Soviet main and diehard, but I am with you 100% its sooo lame & boring to fly my favorite jet, the Su27 literally no challenge or thought into the game. Just point click & watch all 6 of my insanely fast & accurate R-27ERs clap dudes just trying to keep their F-15 from ripping.
iduno maybe I should report it.
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That entirely depends on whether they will do any changes to multipathing - which tbh im actually expecting they will at the very least comment on sometime soon due to smin not outright dismissing potential news for MP changes this patch like they have in the past. Personally, I’m hoping for a more realistic implementation on an individual radar/missile basis so it doesn’t drastically change earlier br’s like a lower static figure might since the equipment at those br’s is more susceptible to MP effect.
But yeah the coming fox3’s are far less susceptible in general to multipathing then most other current radar missiles - but if no MP changes come then the meta will still be the same and the only difference will be the noise on rwr and more missiles slamming into the dirt then before.
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@Ziggy1989 The purposeful misreading and misunderstanding of information to incite flame wars or bait responses from people needs to stop. Feel free to make the report, you’ll be told by tech mods the same thing you are being told by BBCRF and myself.
The R-27R/ER share the exact same seeker model. You cherry picked a quote from a random website listed in my thread and totally misread it.
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Thats why I wanted to get my point & historical research out in detail for GJ and the community to discuss beforehand.
It’s not because of any type of attack on the Mig29 or Su27. They are my two most played fighters ever & I have access to every nation top tier fighters & played them extensively. It’s because I want to the game to be more balanced for everyone & most of all, I want more historical accuracy in the tech tree & nation that is responsible for developing my most favorite aircraft, the USSR.
I am more of a historical fan of Soviet aviation history than the type of fan that just wants anything that is Soviet to dominate everything & everyone at all costs even at the expense physics, reality & technical capability.
I feel like GJ is starting to stray from keeping historical accuracy in their field of view the last two years.
Anyway, I do hope GJ does fixes multipathing, gives the Mig29 its rightful missile & gets off this “The R-27ER defines the Soviet aviation” mentality once active missiles come in. I think they will.
Oh & fix the Mig29 SMT 9-12 & 9-13 FM :)
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PLEASE
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Respect
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I still don’t see you in the Su-30 discord.
They really REALLY need to change MP’s current implementation in-game. At this point in air battles, MP has become outright game-defining, and i cant really find any half decent pilot that likes it. It massively skews air combat in the advantage of dogfighters and completely invalidates any strengths of jets that rely on their radar weapons.
The idea that its a “balancing” feature as has been claimed by gaijin is ludicrous as well, since as mentionned, it sways the balance in favour of a specific class of jets and has literally no counter play. Its a crutch to make top tier more forgiving for the hordes of rank 7 premium players, and until this blatant crutch is removed, air combat will remain a furball and dogfight dominated.
MP abuse used to be mitigated by high alt players being able to dive down on lawnmowers and dropping IR missiles on their heads with impunity, but the addition of the excessive contrails and the fact they do not happen in an altitude band but at any alt above one set by gaijin, along with the R-27ER being literally completely uncontested in BVR, and a death sentence at ranges that the spotting system may not actually see the launch aircraft at, make flying at alt borderline suicide, as the power dynamic has been completely swayed in favor of the lawnmowers. There is literally no disadvantage to abusing MP anymore, and no advantage in fighting for altitude control, which is why MP so widely abused.
That being said, I’m almost sure they intend to remove it eventually, specifically due to the fact that none of the MP/min alt bug reports made have been closed as “Not a bug”. They all remain “acknowledged” and open on the bug report site, just waiting to be fixed…
As for when they’ll be fixed, that’s a mystery. The upcoming fox 3 patch would be the most obvious contender imo tho.
Yeah, in its current implementation its an absolutely terrible mechanic which makes combat in game a laughably unrealistic portrayal of real life air to air engagements. But due to the ‘early’ roll out of tomcats and then the ER i dont think it would have been reasonable to change it anytime sooner. So, i (and a metric ton of others) am really hoping it gets addressed this coming update since that will be basically the first time that every nation will have practical parity in radar missiles and is the perfect time to finally change the mechanic towards a far more realistic implementation.
And the lack of outright denial this time in smins reply to apollo on that issue a couple days ago gives me some hope we might actually see something happen, with maybe some news planned to come on that recent CM news thread they made.
Ruslet is one of the good sources, I have personally written to the site owner and he is a big fan of Russian technology who spends a lot of money on his resources.
I kind of think they NEED to address it with the intro of fox 3’s tbh.
The F-4F ICE for example (germany’s only jet for the near future it seems) will be completely and totally outclassed by everything it faces in WVR combat. It will either need a lower BR than top tier, IRIS-T, or a mix of both to even begin to compete, and i dont think either of those options are as healthy as just fixing MP.
Im very curious to see what plateform other nations get for their first fox 3 plateforms as well. I think Russia/France/Britain/Sweden are the big winners of the upcoming patch if MP isnt fixed
never saw smins message that you’re referring to, care to link it?
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The presumption of the source being shit was likely made because of the poor reading and explanation of it.
The fact of the matter is that he is misreading the information and claiming the R-27ER must only be able to operate on these specific radars frequencies. This isn’t the case as it shares the seeker, guidance unit, and datalink receivers of the normal R-27R.
Further, the standard unmodified R-27R is ALSO able to be used with those aircraft and radars. The assumption that the ER is not compatible with the earlier radar is absurd.
There is also the fact that he skimmed my thread and failed to link any materials that show the R-27 guidance (seeker, autopilot, receivers) are the exact same between both missiles.
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oh yeah here u go:
That was right before they made that new CM news thread - could just be copium but certainly seems like an inference that MP will be talked about over there (soon TM).
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You mean tech mods? What can they say? They know the R-27ER was only brought to the game to increase the game efficiency. I actually have further proof regarding the N019M Topaz I chose not disclose or think I can publicly.
But perhaps you are right, or maybe I do not have to submit anything & already have been messaging a dev & I am just here to simply generating community feedback? Like an actual community member should do?
Or maybe neither, I guess we will never know huh.
Because they share the same seeker does not mean they are guided by the same channels lol.
Do you think that the vast, widely different radars & fire controls that guide the Aim-120 all produce the same main channels frequencies to guide them? Just because the Aim-120 has one seeker head? No programing, whatsoever had to take place? lol
You understand how easy it would be to jam them all if one radar is compromised right?
Why would the Soviet Union develop the R-27ER throughout the mid 80s, to deploy it in 1990 & knowingly allow it to be guided by the same N019 Rubin radar that the Americans already compromised, having the N019 Rubin & R-27 schematics, jam proof data, detection, tracking & guidance frequencies as well as the state recognition system of the USSR?
Even though Phazotron Chief Designer already admitted this to the KGB in 1985 & while on the stand in Moscow in 1986 at his trial? Even though they designed a replacement radar N019M specifically because of this traitor?
The N019M Topaz is an updated version, developed as a response to the compromise of the N019 radar by a US spy. Tested from 1986, it entered limited production in 1991. Slightly lighter than the N019 at 350kg. Topaz has increased ECM resistance, new software, and a more advanced built-in monitoring system. A new Ts101M computer eliminates the processor overload problems of the N019, more than doubling capacity to 400,000 operations per second whilst weighing less, just 19kg, and with doubled MTBF of 1000h compared to the 500h of the Ts100. N019M allows two targets to be engaged by active radar homing missiles simultaneously. Range increased slightly to 80km. Originally intended to be fitted to the existing MiG-29 fleet as an upgrade, about 22 aircraft with N019M are thought to have entered service with the VVS.
N019 Radar | MiG Alley Military Aviation News
Why would the Russians do this? The answer is they would never.
That is why you will never find a single Product 9-12 or 9-13 in all of the world with the R-27ER unless it has the N019M Topaz radar or greater.
Even after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Do you understand how dumb it would be to sell R-27ERs to your allies knowing that yours & their enemies such as NATO have the exact same radars that guide it?
Can you find me a single NATO country that has the N019M radar or the R-27ER?
I will wait.
I agree 10000000000% with you bud, for me winning in war thunder isn’t pleasurable when you have an artificial advantage over your opponents and you KNOW that something is off, you know that your vehicle isn’t working how it’s supposed to. I wouldn’t care if the russian winrate drops substantially after some kind of rework on its current aircraft in order to make them realistic, i’d probably get shitted on by a f15 sniper? Yeah, but at least i’d be able to dance on the air with a maneuverable aircraft, which is enough for me, victory isn’t the most important thing after all it’s just a game.
There’s something gracious about early soviet 4th gen fighters, planes that IRL were known almost as harmless when they are far away, but the closer they get, the more disturbing the dogfighting atmosphere becomes because you know what those things are capable of. 80s duels between western and eastern aircraft are like sniper players x shotgun players in fps games, as a westerner you want to keep these damn beasts far away from you and as a easterner you have to struggle to get close to it to terrorize the poor guy, a beautiful and dynamic duel.
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Feel free, they’ll likely just not respond or if they do… Will tell you what you already know. The missile is compatible with the older radars as is the R-27R.
Obviously the various radars will guide on different channels even between airframes… radar missiles are designed to use more than one channel or frequency… Kinda how they work.
No, that’s what you implied about the R-27ER only being usable on two radars.
Stop posting nonsense
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Where did imply only being usable on two radars? Please point that out & quote me.
Prove it.
Find me a single Mig-29 product 9-12 or 9-13 anywhere in the world with the N019 Rubin equipped with the R-27ER.
Why would the Russian Federation & their allies allow the R-27ER to be guided by radars NATO already owns & NATO already knows everything about & can jam.
Please answer that question out loud. I am waiting.
You’re the only one derailing a good discussion & a refresh into the MiG-29 & potentially making the game more realistic. Just read my post I put a lot of time into it. Please ask legitimate questions.
No need to repeat over & over something you can never prove even with a single source or picture. Just because it is so currently in War Thunder (which GJ already said why) does not make it a technical reality & does not change history.
N019 Rubin & R-27ER is not compatible. Only N019M & N001 Mech or greater.
My favorite MiG not just because its Serbian,
ERs, R-73 & R-77s on a 9-12A… Even R60Ms just because. A specially tailored Serbian Mig-29SM+ that is similar to the Syrian MiG-29SM that are upgraded 9-12A airframes too. They both have N019ME radars.
