The only situation that i get absolute mad over Russia is top tier ground, mostly because of these fucking helos and the pantsir, firstly i thought that it was just a bunch of crybabies complaining about the game (when i had only the ussr tree) but when i got the US i understood these ppl, the same feeling i get about US air top tier tho
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Ur correct sir
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A minor historical footnote called “Collapse of the Soviet Union” resulted in a lot of information about otherwise secret or at least lesser known equipment becoming quite a lot less secret. That’s the origin of such bias. Also a generaly Soviet tendency towards unorthodox solutions.
Almost all militaries are remarkably conservative and balk a lot at any unorthodox solutions. Soviet design bureaus are also remarkably less prone to this, by comparison. Also the sheer amount of design bureaus.
Meanwhile almost all NATO kit tends to be made by a small handful of national corporations, or nowadays interational conglomerates. By some strange coincidence having a really small amount of companies involved in projects where anything interesting isn’t even seriously considered, has a small tendency to result in really trite solutions.
If the day ever comes where a NATO government actually collapsed at the USSR scale, we might see all their paper projects come to light and know a huge amount more about their equipment, or a great deal more than just the totally honest and unbiased marketing material.
Take a look at POGO and see they’ve been talking about the same problems for at least 40 years
Maybe the way most NATO countries procure weapons, organise their doctrines etc just aren’t really capable of doing anything except solving problems by having overwhelming advantages in budget and technology, neither of which can be accreditted to any shrewdness.
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I don’t think so. The discussion of it’s amazing supermaneuverability and flight performance is hampered by the fact that it only matched it’s peers in areas. Never exceeded them.
The MiG-29 is good, but it’s not as incredible as it seems to be made out to be. Like Russian bias, it’s commonly discussed but just a myth. MiG-29 is a normal stable design with good post-stall recovery characteristics.
The US had their own issues with the fighter pilot mafia dragging their feet and holding back American fighters from becoming something truly special.
Regarding the avionics, the MiG-29s don’t touch the F-15s nor does the arsenal. Like the MiG-29, the F-15 was specialized for a specific set of tasks. The F-15 had guessed right where the MiG-29 didn’t stand the test of time.
Also it’s quite obvious Gaijin approaches this game with the “History channel” mindset. You see it everytime our hero @MiG_23M posts another factual proof of an error on their part and is almost immediately dismissed with some fresh mental gymnastics with 0 evidence.
Gaijin will bend over backwards to put M247 into the game, a very functional and useful weapons platform in real life, but you ask them to assume Soviet engineers know how to design MiG-29 engines/air intakes properly…
Now we wait for the flanker and see how it’ll perform, pretty sure we’ll soon have the Sukhoi SU-27 Flanker - History, Design, Performance & Dissection , a lot of reports and war between our comrades ziggy and mig23m
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You won’t see any further discussion between us. In fact, no discussion was really had when only one side was sharing documentation.
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I think you misunderstood me, I never said this was anything that it excelled it, though it was a fair bit better than the MiG-23s before it (duh)
Yeah led to goofy things like the F-16 having zero BVR for a decade, F-15 having no countermeasures until the mid 80s (despite foreign operators installing them before then)
Ofcourse, something the west excelled at was RWR and Radar, though the F-15 radar was hampered heavily early in life and it took constant updates through the 80s to set it straight (not that the N001 in the Su-27 was much better in that aspect though)
yeah they were built for 2 completely different roles, it happened the MiG-29s role was no longer necessary after the cold war while the F-15 was still very much relevant, and for the same reasons the Su-27 series was also a lot more successful than the MiG-29
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I’m halfway through it, but for over like a year now… I’ve never finished it because I’ve become much busier irl. And whenever I have the time, I debate if I should stay home to write it or go out to let’s say, have a motorcycle ride out in the air. Never been difficult to decide imo lol
I think I should just share it with someone who’s willing to finish it.
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If the Fulcrum remains. The flanker being gigantic with less thrust than the smt. We are going to be here (me) fighting with some people (you know who you are) that will be like “bro the F-18 is supermaneuverable just admit it.”
This platform cannot fall behind because we expect a better to come along.
I think you are being too harsh on the MiG-29.
The flight performance is much more than just good stall recovery and decent AoA, and, apart from range and service life (with the latter though being more than compensated by low cost and ease of production), it was the best fighter in the world right up there with the F-15 until the typhoon and the rafale came.
The sheer speed, climb rate, high speed energy retention of the MiG-29 are matched only by the F-15, which is clearly inferior in a dogfight to a MiG-29. The F-16 is slower, zoom climbs less accelerates less, it does everything worse apart from sustained turn rate. If given capable avionics (which is an area were the Soviets knew that overall the A model was lacking, that’s why the MiG-29S upgrade arrived almost immediately and the MiG-29M was ready for production in 1991) the MiG-29 has all the advantages the F-15 has over the F-16.
The main reason why the Flanker has been far more successful is how the 2 companies were managed after the fall of the USSR. The MiG-29M was ready to enter production at a time where establishing a new production line was the last thing Russia thought about, and after that Mikoyan focus went mostly on the 1.44 .
Instead Sukhoi just continued to give gradual but consistent upgrades on the flanker, who’s main production line was already running.
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okay thats a little much, the 29 was great and all but it was pretty lackluster in BVR performance compared to the F-14, F-15, and even F-18. R-27Rs were pretty significantly inferior to AIM-7Ms in terms of range and the R-27ER was a Su-27 exclusive feature in the 1980s, was mostly because the N019 lacked the range to properly take advantage of it compared to the Su-27s. The MiG-29S with the N019M helped this but only 16 of those were made lol.
I wouldn’t understate the F-15’s dogfight capability, the F-15 can easily match the MiG-29’s performance. MiG-29’s main advantage is low speed turning being pretty good compared to the F-15, but high speed turning capability dictates a fight much more than low speed.
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Depending on conditionals, but the F-16 already performs on par or better than it IRL. Goes toe-to-toe with it and the F-16 honestly isn’t America’s premier fighter. The F-15 is superior, the F/A-18 is superior. The Super Hornet shouldn’t ever even have a concern for MiG-29’s in the area (Maybe a VERY modernized one)… but I digress.
The MiG-29 never stacked against the teen series IRL and the loss rate shows. It’s severely blown out of proportions and you can see that in-game. Even when it was added everyone said it was the best thing ever and I advocated stating as much as the F-14A could smoke it when flown by equal skill pilots. This is all true for the most part, and so much more so in efficiency because the F-14’s simply have more ordnance to throw at the enemy that is useful at the time. Now that the R-73 and R-27ER are here it skews unfavorably.
Not to mention even the 11.3 Mirage 2000C-S5 is giving the MiG-29 a really really hard time currently with the Magic 2s and the low speed handling. All those crazy design features of the MiG-29 just don’t stack up to the hype.
Is anyone here fluent in Russian that can help me translate and understand some of these books pertaining to the RD-33? @Grimtax @_Fantom2451 ??
Do you know what the 100% miss altitude was for the R-27ER?
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Didnt bother testing, not the thing I bug reported. Should be relatively close to the AIM-7M’s 95m tho since both have an 8m proxy fuze and multipath is “the same” for all missiles, the increased speed/pull might effect it tho but not sure.
Irl its something like 20m min alt, tho iirc ive heard stuff about it having issues at higher altitudes than that too
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I was speaking irl, in game they are all the same
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I gave you both, not sure why you’re complaining…
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Apart that only 16 NEW mig-29S were made but many more MiG-29As got upgraded to the same standard since the airframe is the same, what you are saying is all caused by substandard avionics. The airframe itself of the MiG-29 has nothing to envy to other 4th gen fighters.
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