The farce is still on full display, please take the discussion more seriously. We both understand that the G limits shown in the sustained turn rate chart are for airframe longevity and the 1.5x limit applies to the actual limits. What are you trying to say here?
That is how they do it though as far as I know? Max permitted G, as per manuals, multiplied by 1.5.
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But that is not relevant to the structural limitation of the aircraft. It sure as can pull more or around but its strictly stated to stay tf away and you can very well degrade the air frame or die.
He initially claimed the Mig29 has a structural limitation of 9Gs. That is BS. Because it would never be part of its combat doctrine or flight regime if that was the case. They would love to preserve the airframe as much as possible.
Its false and the structural integrity limitation is much higher than 9Gs.
Unless he is now going to go with some sources that claim the Mig29 is limited operationally to 7Gs. Which given his character would not be surprising.
I know, but it’s just the way GJN estimates the actual structural limit. To be honest, they probably should have revised this long before fighters as strong as the F-16 were added to the game. I doubt the effects of increased G scale linearly when it comes to airframe strain, so a flat +50% benefits fighters with a higher G-limit, like the F-16, much more.
If that is the case doing the math. Why is it tied with the Mig29 SMT being far heavier with same amount and type of missiles and same fuel?
F4E immediate pitch up and pulling 11Gs @ 900km with 6x short range IR missiles @ 20min fuel.
Same as the SMT pulling up 11gs @ 900km with 6x short range IR missiles @ 20 min fuel.
Same map @ sea level under 1,000 feet.
I’m not sure what you mean
Mig29SMT and F4E perform same performance in rapid pitch up and G loading with same combat loads and fuel times @ same airspeed in in AB at same altitudes @ sea level under 1k feet.
Not only that the F4E maintains more lift that the lighter SMT. In basic maneuvering.
Structural limits are just when the wings rip. Whether the aircraft can pull enough AoA/has enough lift to reach that G at a given airspeed is down to the aerodynamic flight model GJN have given it, as far as I know.
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Agreed. But it must be noted it is a lot more complex than that. Just because a wing does not rip does not mean the airframe is not ruined and not unflyable.
I 100% agree. You missed my post testing aircraft comparing the SMT to other models under specific test parameters? Mig immediately freaked out and drowned out any discussion that was taking off. I tested so many aircraft and it’s pretty funny how many lower BR aircraft have higher G loading, alpha and lift coefficients.
F4E Kurnass 2k alpha/lift coefficient performance - YouTube
Mig29 SMT alpha/lift coefficient performance - YouTube
Not only will I continue testing different aircraft. I will also run the SMT again each time because I do not want to skew or take away from the SMT as I get better at conducting the test run doing it over and over.
Now @MiG_23M is making the claim that ALL flight models are perfect that can be tested against the SMT. It is quite a pivot and in direct conflict with his other recent comments. He is quite the literal walking contradiction.
You are putting words in my mouth, actively trolling by saying that instant G loading is the same as whatever “rapid pitch-up capability” means. You have been intentionally ambiguous and argumentative. Refuse to compare against real world sources and datapoints.
Your entire purpose here has been to present this farce.
So be clear which of the models I tested are perfect. You believe the F4E is, thats one. The Mig29 SMT (2) and Fulcrum series as a whole (5).
JH-7A?
Mig21 Bis?
How about this. I will keep uploading videos and let you be the one and only judge. That is what you prefer correct?
Anyone can judge your videos. You haven’t answered any questions that further the discussion. How is instant G loading equivalent to alpha or lift coefficient? How are you deducing those values from this test?
How is that proof that the MiG-21 dominates the MiG-29SMT?
Be specific to the word DOMINATE Professor. Man of science with the fire tangibles, most sterile test and superior datamining tools. Junior game developer and Top Gun instructor.
Again, please read the description of findings. It can in some instances pull more Gs. Maintain more lift and complete my test maintaining higher energy with same missile count and fuel times.
I did. Doesn’t answer my question. What is the real purpose of the test in the first place? Maximum instantaneous G loading of various aircraft doesn’t prove the FM of the MiG-29 is underperforming.
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For an aircraft that can perform rapid pitch up second only to the Su27s in the 4th generation, but is tied with thousands of pounds heavier aircraft with far weaker thrust to weights not equipped with excessive lift fuselages of aerodynamic integral designs like the F-16, Mig29 and Su27 is not underperforming in your mind…
Well, I guess there is nothing that can convince you otherwise, right?
I agree to disagree, sir. Good day.
Maximum available sustained AoA is 26-28 degrees. The F-4E is incapable of dynamic attainment. The MiG-29 can’t do that one-time-only maneuver in mouse aim.
Duh.
ok.
Who said anything about sustained alpha. Thank you for pointing though. Appreciate it.
Instructors aim is to prevent you from dumping all energy immediately, the sweet spot is always somewhere below the sustainable alpha.
Anyhow, you’re comparing the performance of the two with instructor which is obviously going to skew results. Still didn’t answer my questions.
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I am sorry, since when does your questions matter? since you gained datamining tools? Got your Junior Game Developer badge? Or became a Top Gun Instructor?
Since when does your questions determine what furthers a discussion? Pretend I am completely someone else since you are so horny to jump on anything I have to say when you can discuss it with the 1.5 million players that believe the SMT is underperforming.
You know what, I will level with you. As soon as you can see eye to eye with me and give me the same respect. I will take you seriously as well.